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Thread: Can open, worms everywhere.....

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javert View Post
    To some extent this is irrelevant unless the Supreme court upholds it.

    What I would be more concerned about is that this whole thing seems to expose a serious constitutional issue in our country. The English courts have ruled that this is not a legal matter but a political one, and therefore it's not an issue for the courts to get involved in, and the supreme court may end up endorsing that.

    The problem for me is that if that's correct, then it means that the UK Prime Minister can theoretically close down parliament for as long as he likes, and the only one who can try to stop him is the Queen. For example he could say, I'm closing down parliament until the next election in 2020.

    I would say that regardless of your position on the current impasse, we shouldn't have a constitution which allows the PM to close down parliament whenever he/she feels like it and for as long as they like.
    I don't think he would, he would have closed Parliament down from July to November 1st if he thought he could have got away with it.

    I also don't think it's right that opposition minority parties can now lead the country. The majority of voters voted for the Tories, May stuffed up and had to form a coalition, but at least the majority of the people have the Government they voted for. Now we have a situation where the PM is impotent with the prospect of Corbyn getting in to number 10 without any mandate whatsoever from the people.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassie View Post
    I don't think he would, he would have closed Parliament down from July to November 1st if he thought he could have got away with it.

    I also don't think it's right that opposition minority parties can now lead the country. The majority of voters voted for the Tories, May stuffed up and had to form a coalition, but at least the majority of the people have the Government they voted for. Now we have a situation where the PM is impotent with the prospect of Corbyn getting in to number 10 without any mandate whatsoever from the people.
    Perhaps, but my point is that theoretically he could do that, and it shouldn't even be legally possible for him to do it (not a Brexit issue but a general issue).

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javert View Post
    Perhaps, but my point is that theoretically he could do that, and it shouldn't even be legally possible for him to do it (not a Brexit issue but a general issue).
    You've seen the outcry for proroguing in effect for 4 days, so I don't think any PM would try it now. It's no good these MPs saying that they wanted to cancel the conference season to sit in Parliament, because I've heard a few MPs saying they are not attending the conference as they have other things planned, it just suits their agenda to say so and to be 'very offended and outraged'.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javert View Post
    Perhaps, but my point is that theoretically he could do that, and it shouldn't even be legally possible for him to do it (not a Brexit issue but a general issue).
    Also perhaps, but nothing is happening to dispel the growing anger that an overwhelmingly pro remain parliament (together with media, legal and establishment figures) have done everything they possibly can to stop a democratic decision from being enacted. I guess you aren't pissed off at the behaviour of our ruling elite because you happen to want the same outcome as they do. I suspect also that if the boot were on the other foot, and a remain government suspended parliament to prevent legislation being passed to confirm the UK was leaving the EU, there wouldn't be half as many morally outraged remainers whinging their t*ts off about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeppityDawg View Post
    Also perhaps, but nothing is happening to dispel the growing anger that an overwhelmingly pro remain parliament (together with media, legal and establishment figures) have done everything they possibly can to stop a democratic decision from being enacted. I guess you aren't pissed off at the behaviour of our ruling elite because you happen to want the same outcome as they do. I suspect also that if the boot were on the other foot, and a remain government suspended parliament to prevent legislation being passed to confirm the UK was leaving the EU, there wouldn't be half as many morally outraged remainers whinging their t*ts off about it.
    They are blinkered, they just can't see it. What Parliament did last week was disgraceful in my opinion, just taking control like that. It is quite scary that that can happen in a democratic society, without even the means to have a GE, give the people the democratic vote over a stagnant Parliament. No, the minority parties, the likes of the LIb Undems and the Greens who get very few seat in Parliament are overruling a Government that had the majority. If that is not undemocratic, I don't what democracy is any more.

  6. #36
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    Some people mind very much that the British constitution (with a small 'c') is prone to vagueness and relies on precedent, common sense and making do, but I think it can be a good thing. At any rate, it feels British. Since Parliament serves the UK, England and Wales to different degrees, sometimes in unison and sometimes separately, it's effectively at least three different legislatures. The English (and sometimes Welsh) parliament is now prorogued, but the Scottish one and the Welsh Assembly are trucking on as ever. Will England - and to a lesser extent, Wales - have fewer laws as a result? Or will their MPs have to work harder to make up the deficit? And does this count as a good thing or a bad thing? This doesn't even start on which courts have jurisdiction over which of these three-which-are-sometimes-two institutions.

    Don't you wish you'd studied constitutional law though? You'd be raking in the moolah this week.

  7. #37
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    The strength in our parliamentary confrontational system comes form a strong opposition. We do not have a strong opposition. I say this as a matter of principle, it matters not which party is in government and which is the opposition. The fact is Her Majesties Official Opposition has a duty, its purpose, is to strongly OPPOSE and to have effect. Hence the rot set in our country when Cameron - Miliband - Clegg held the reigns. They were all the same. This is why Trump is having such a huge positive effect on the USA. Because he is a strong leader with clear blue water between the 2 parties. Semantics is the recipe for stagnation and destruction, eventually.
    When you see an Apple Tree why be surprised it produces Apples?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeppityDawg View Post
    growing anger
    Do you have any data about this growing anger?

    There's a difference between a reducing minority of people becoming more and more angry, and a larger actual number of people becoming angry.

  9. #39
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    Pano, re your last statement about semantics. What on earth do you mean?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javert View Post
    Do you have any data about this growing anger?

    There's a difference between a reducing minority of people becoming more and more angry, and a larger actual number of people becoming angry.
    Are you serious?. So...shall I commission a fecking telephone poll to define "angry" first? "Are you angry, somewhat angry, a little angry, not angry at all"?

    Look Javert, I know you and your pals on here think that absolutely everything can and must be quantified and endlessly disemminated in "factual" (but never biased, oh no) studies and data, but angry means exactly what it says. As in pissed, rocked off, bouncing.

    And no, I don't have any fecking "data", anymore than you do about the "actual" number of people who are angry.

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