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Thread: America's "economic denuclearisation" of China

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    America's "economic denuclearisation" of China

    1. Patrick Shanahan, the acting US defence secretary, singled out China as a key priority in a “great power competition” on his first full day in his new role at the Pentagon on Wednesday, continuing a course set by his predecessor....

    “While we are focused on ongoing operations, Acting Secretary Shanahan told the team to remember China, China, China,” an anonymous defence official was quoted as saying....

    2. As more white supremacists from the US military, political parties and the white heartland are gripped by Sinophobia, hawkish voices from America are growing louder day by day. This is nothing new to China as the US had gone all out from 1949 to 1972 to denuclearise China by imposing sanctions -- just like what it is doing to Iran and North Korea today.

    Let us find out the reasons for the utter failure of the US sanctions.

    (a) At that time, China was absolutely poor, having no industrial base or an international brand like Huawei. Its warplanes could not even match their counterparts from across the Taiwan Strait, yet China was able to weather the storm due to its resolve to stand firm on the rock of principles and sovereignty throughout that crucial period.

    (b) More importantly, China never had delusions that the US would mete out any mercy or reward had it kowtowed to Uncle Sam.

    (c) Throughout the crisis, the Chinese held their heads high and showed some backbone in their struggle against US Imperialism.

    3. I coin the term "economic denuclearisation" for the so-called trade war which is a new round of sanctions in disguise. Like the first, the disguised sanctions could last over 20 years.

    As the US views China as its rival now, we can expect its economic assaults on Chinese companies to be more brutal and ruthless. China has to look back to history to find out how to survive in its life-and-death struggle against US Imperialism.

    The above three factors are as vital as ever for China's survival. Most important of all, China must reckon with the reality the US will contain its rise at all costs, even to the extent of sacrificing the economic interests of many US companies.

    China must not be deluded by any US "peace" overture or be intimated by any threat as Trump blows hot and cold from one moment to the next. China must bear in mind that Trump has ruled out any 50-50 deal or meeting it halfway in the trade talks even though he preaches fair, free and reciprocal trade.

    On the one hand, China must not underestimate the US resolve to stem its rise. On the other hand, China must make known to the US not to underestimate the resolve of one fifth of mankind to struggle against US containment and coercion to the very end.

    While most Chinese may be prepared to resist to the very end, one worrying aspect is some may opt for a policy of appeasement after growing "soft" over years of prosperity. As in the law of the jungle, "To show weakness is to show your throat."

    4. In remarks during closed-door talks, Acting US Defence Secretary Patrick Shanahan told civilian leaders of the US military to remember “China, China, China” even as they wage counter-insurgency battles.

    He told the audience that “there are no such things as fair competitions – there’s just competition”. And he acknowledged that the US would “operate in a contested environment” in the great power rivalry.

    Similarly, China must remember "American Imperialism, American Imperialism, American Imperialism" and be prepared to struggle to the last against the American Empire.

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    It is just the shooting game,without the shooting reedak,the two largest powers jostling for position that neither wants to lose.The Chinese have been at it as well for decades letting the US drain itself with military conflicts while its debt grows beyond its means.American Imperialism don't come cheap,as we all know.
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    Trump is belatedly using the US might to bulldoze his point home while other countries have for years been whimpering meekly on the sidelines. Certainly since the ‘70s, European and US companies have used China for manufacturing sophisticated products without recognising the risks they ran by handing China — which was no respecter of intellectual property ownership — access to advanced technology...
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    Do you know that China is likely to have the first properly working autonomous cars in the world?

    Uncle Sam's efforts combined with our own have only so far produced research prototypes, which suffer from a multitude of problems, like the journalist visiting Oxford was told to come back when it wasn't snowing because they didn't work in the snow.

    China has a program called Apollo though and it is absolutely huge. If you look down the list of firms signed up to it you will see many American technology companies. Analog Devices was one I recall seeing. This does not surprise me because when the Chinese do their electronics they do buy from American firms. I mean firms like Texas Instruments, which have been going since the chip was invented. So you see how the Chinese are, is they respect American technology and will be pleased to buy it, and the American firms are thinking lovely, we're in for some big orders here, but the attitude is not the same the other way, and American governments are trying to shoot down Chinese firms.

    The trouble is that these autonomous cars are currently in the tooling up phase of production. Dates are earmarked for the next few years to see them on the market. One thing you'll learn about this is like many over that way, their timetables are fast, and they are very good at sticking to them. It's like the Taiwanese firm TSMC, when they say a new factory is going to be online it arrives bang on time.

    So that's it for cars. The Chinese will control the world market because no one will want old fashioned cars with quaint steering wheels after these things get going. It's hard to achieve autonomous cars and the West is having difficulty with it. Chances are Apollo has poached some of the best Western brains to get ahead. As with the chips, when Chinese see good quality they get their wallets out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov View Post
    Do you know that China is likely to have the first properly working autonomous cars in the world?

    Uncle Sam's efforts combined with our own have only so far produced research prototypes, which suffer from a multitude of problems, like the journalist visiting Oxford was told to come back when it wasn't snowing because they didn't work in the snow.

    China has a program called Apollo though and it is absolutely huge. If you look down the list of firms signed up to it you will see many American technology companies. Analog Devices was one I recall seeing. This does not surprise me because when the Chinese do their electronics they do buy from American firms. I mean firms like Texas Instruments, which have been going since the chip was invented. So you see how the Chinese are, is they respect American technology and will be pleased to buy it, and the American firms are thinking lovely, we're in for some big orders here, but the attitude is not the same the other way, and American governments are trying to shoot down Chinese firms.

    The trouble is that these autonomous cars are currently in the tooling up phase of production. Dates are earmarked for the next few years to see them on the market. One thing you'll learn about this is like many over that way, their timetables are fast, and they are very good at sticking to them. It's like the Taiwanese firm TSMC, when they say a new factory is going to be online it arrives bang on time.

    So that's it for cars. The Chinese will control the world market because no one will want old fashioned cars with quaint steering wheels after these things get going. It's hard to achieve autonomous cars and the West is having difficulty with it. Chances are Apollo has poached some of the best Western brains to get ahead. As with the chips, when Chinese see good quality they get their wallets out.
    Well said. What do you think will be the outcome of the so-called trade war?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepy View Post
    It is just the shooting game,without the shooting reedak,the two largest powers jostling for position that neither wants to lose.The Chinese have been at it as well for decades letting the US drain itself with military conflicts while its debt grows beyond its means.American Imperialism don't come cheap,as we all know.
    Yes, it is a shooting game in which Trump is shooting himself in the foot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reedak View Post
    Well said. What do you think will be the outcome of the so-called trade war?
    I think the Chinese will make anything they are banned from being supplied with or is compromised in any way from Western suppliers. It was the route Huawei took when they decided whether they should buy western telecommunication equipment to provide China with a reliable telephone system. They figured they would get shafted, so they went the long way around and established their own R & D. After many years they find they are top, and it is because they chose to use their own technology. So they will buy from America as long as they are able to, but if they are not, they will just do it themselves.

    They are highly pragmatic. They don't bear any grudges themselves and indeed the political view in China is the government wants to develop culture as well as trade. The Chinese are all very similar, and their government thinks it will do them some good to mix with other cultures so it enriches their own. For example if a top British band wants to play in Shanghai then no problem. It's like the opposite of the Soviet Union, where the people from other places are greeted warmly.

    Meanwhile over at the Pentagon they are frightened of their own stupidity. They are acting in a paranoid manner, and likely to shoot themselves in the foot. Where other countries will be grateful for an extra few billion of orders from them, American managing directors are going to be pulling their hair out. They would see the losses, and damage to their competitiveness. Then I think in turn that unhappiness will end up knocking on the door or the Pentagon to knock a bit of sense into them. Money talks in America and if large technology firms either go bust, move out of the country or get taken over then that's going to moderate the madness. If you are bidding for a contract and using Huawei hardware is cheaper and better and if your government says you can't use it then you will not get the contract. America isolating itself from world trade will hit them badly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov View Post
    I think the Chinese will make anything they are banned from being supplied with or is compromised in any way from Western suppliers. It was the route Huawei took when they decided whether they should buy western telecommunication equipment to provide China with a reliable telephone system. They figured they would get shafted, so they went the long way around and established their own R & D. After many years they find they are top, and it is because they chose to use their own technology. So they will buy from America as long as they are able to, but if they are not, they will just do it themselves.

    They are highly pragmatic. They don't bear any grudges themselves and indeed the political view in China is the government wants to develop culture as well as trade. The Chinese are all very similar, and their government thinks it will do them some good to mix with other cultures so it enriches their own. For example if a top British band wants to play in Shanghai then no problem. It's like the opposite of the Soviet Union, where the people from other places are greeted warmly.

    Meanwhile over at the Pentagon they are frightened of their own stupidity. They are acting in a paranoid manner, and likely to shoot themselves in the foot. Where other countries will be grateful for an extra few billion of orders from them, American managing directors are going to be pulling their hair out. They would see the losses, and damage to their competitiveness. Then I think in turn that unhappiness will end up knocking on the door or the Pentagon to knock a bit of sense into them. Money talks in America and if large technology firms either go bust, move out of the country or get taken over then that's going to moderate the madness. If you are bidding for a contract and using Huawei hardware is cheaper and better and if your government says you can't use it then you will not get the contract. America isolating itself from world trade will hit them badly.
    Quite true. You are one of the few who can see the folly of Trump. He had bankrupted his companies at least four times. If he stays long enough in office, he will not only bankrupt the US but the whole world.

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    I was going to add to that the action of late over Huawei has hit the the share prices of all the chip fabrication companies across the world. It's quite logical to explain though. The market collectively thinks less chips will be made in the world because of this. So follow that through and think who will end up with less chips. It's got to be America, and chips are an interesting thing because they do the automation for you. There's two types of work - physical and mental. Chips do mental work, and the more of it they do the better off the owner of these chips is, no matter what it is. It's a bit like oil. You can look at a country's consumption of oil and you would find it is a pretty good indicator of the amount of industrial activity, because everything needs energy to drive it. Likewise for chips. The more chips per capita the more advanced is the nation.
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    Huawei are also involved in designing the global 5G spec. I've just been looking at some of the 5G documents in the implementation of the standard. It's a bit like a forum with the other major players, e.g. Qualcomm, Ericsson etc.
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