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Thread: US lawmakers want to tighten visas for Chinese students, researchers

  1. #11
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    I don't deal with any state-owned companies. Here's an example of a firm I was looking at and have purchased from as well. They manufacture electronic stuff. They started in 2008 and it was just one chap, the founder and one person to help him. Ten years later he employs 240 people and has his business located on three continents.

    Now you just try doing that in England and see how far you get. This country is the absolute pits, and their press idiots do not understand at all what is going on in day-to day China. These guys have new ideas and new ways of dong things which means they produce very efficiently. Machines used for electronic manufacture cost a fortune. These people make sure they are used as efficiently as possible. That is why they have expanded so fast. The government is hands-off. Of course they love firms like that, but understand even the government feels it is working for someone. It's the sense of honour and duty. They get off their bum and aim to be productive. See the difference in this country. They are as clever as kids in a school playground, constantly bickering at each other and calling one another names. So that's the difference.

    I know what this place is like because recently I had a corrupt judge appointed by the state trying to screw my business for money I did not owe. I'm serious. This country is like the old soviet union. Justice is no longer. It took me three years to get the bitch. That was three years of wasted litigation. She will still be in a government job though.
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  3. #12
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    I am with the Baron on this. Loads of carp in the media.
    I know Southern China very well and know exactly how it rolls down there.
    Never dealt with an SOE, mainly as most I have ever heard about tend to be Local Infrastructure based and not the sort of businesses that trade internationally.
    I am sure you can find exceptions if you look, but they will be a small minority.
    The days of massive state control, when each ministry owned its own Factories, Schools, Hospitals, Banks and Housing etc are all long gone!

  4. #13
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    A healthy portion of Chinese commerce is financially supported by the Chinese government. Hence, it's certainly difficult, if not impossible, for a start-up to compete with such an enterprise. That is NOT what a free-market, capitalist economy is about. China is a lot of things, but a free-market, capitalist economy is not one of them.

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foghorn View Post
    A healthy portion of Chinese commerce is financially supported by the Chinese government. Hence, it's certainly difficult, if not impossible, for a start-up to compete with such an enterprise. That is NOT what a free-market, capitalist economy is about. China is a lot of things, but a free-market, capitalist economy is not one of them.
    You quote a statistic:

    China's Global 500 companies are bigger than ever—and mostly state-owned
    You then go on to derive from that, that China is a command economy,i.e. controlled by the state.

    Now first of all we have to define what Global 500 companies actually are. It sounds like an index to me of the largest 500 companies in China. Now I said I have not done business with a state-owned company. However this is where people get misled by the propaganda. I do get my post from china Post, which I believe is state-owned. Should it be? It costs about 10p to send a small package from china to the UK. Amazing I know but it is known as economy of scale. Think that one through. Two firms would most likely increase the cost. If you want to know how Chinese people think, they are number one, pragmatic, so if the cost is lower then that is hows they do it.

    So what China Post is, is a kind of infrastructure company for shifting goods. Road building is a similar category because it is infrastructure as well. Imagine if everyone designed a bit of the road system. it would be as chaotic as the UK roads are today! So this is the kind of thing you find. The state do the infrastructure and the majority of the rest of the business is small private companies. Why small? The smaller they are the more there are, and the more companies there are the greater the competition. Your statistic in one sense actually confirms China's capitalist postilion. I'm not sure about this last point, but it might also be the case that large infrastructure firms hand the work out to small private business, so the large firm is not taking much of the value cake. They are in the extreme what is known in the City as a market maker. They put the work contracts out to tender and although a lot of money passes through, it does not equate to a the same thing as doing a lot of work.

    So anyway, please don't give me these crappy press statistics to "prove" a point, because very often they are a crafty lie. They can be true, but also trick people into drawing false conclusions, as it seems you have done.
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  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov View Post
    You quote a statistic:



    You then go on to derive from that, that China is a command economy,i.e. controlled by the state.

    Now first of all we have to define what Global 500 companies actually are. It sounds like an index to me of the largest 500 companies in China. Now I said I have not done business with a state-owned company. However this is where people get misled by the propaganda. I do get my post from china Post, which I believe is state-owned. Should it be? It costs about 10p to send a small package from china to the UK. Amazing I know but it is known as economy of scale. Think that one through. Two firms would most likely increase the cost. If you want to know how Chinese people think, they are number one, pragmatic, so if the cost is lower then that is hows they do it.

    So what China Post is, is a kind of infrastructure company for shifting goods. Road building is a similar category because it is infrastructure as well. Imagine if everyone designed a bit of the road system. it would be as chaotic as the UK roads are today! So this is the kind of thing you find. The state do the infrastructure and the majority of the rest of the business is small private companies. Why small? The smaller they are the more there are, and the more companies there are the greater the competition. Your statistic in one sense actually confirms China's capitalist postilion. I'm not sure about this last point, but it might also be the case that large infrastructure firms hand the work out to small private business, so the large firm is not taking much of the value cake. They are in the extreme what is known in the City as a market maker. They put the work contracts out to tender and although a lot of money passes through, it does not equate to a the same thing as doing a lot of work.

    So anyway, please don't give me these crappy press statistics to "prove" a point, because very often they are a crafty lie. They can be true, but also trick people into drawing false conclusions, as it seems you have done.


    I'm simply stating that China is NOT a ''free market, capitalist'' economy. Because some Chinese citizens may own and independently manage their own business doesn't make the entire economic system like that of the U.S., Canada, Germany, etc. It is NOT a free-market, capitalist economy.

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foghorn View Post
    I'm simply stating that China is NOT a ''free market, capitalist'' economy. Because some Chinese citizens may own and independently manage their own business doesn't make the entire economic system like that of the U.S., Canada, Germany, etc. It is NOT a free-market, capitalist economy.
    Nothing is a perfect free market, but you gauge it by looking at the price of a item from all the different suppliers. If it is a competitive market then they will be mostly bunched up against the minimum price, which is what it costs to produce. It pays to do your own analysis. Indeed the Chinese market is similar to their neighbours like Malaysia, Thailand, Hong Kong and even the Philippines is getting in on the act now. They are all high growth rate economies.

    America is very protectionist in its trade. They manipulate the market in their selling of goods. They are into high tariffs and there is a very long history to it. The Chinese don't mess about with all of this. They are focused on efficiency and innovation. They are getting further and further in front of may Western economies.

    The new type of manufacturing will work like this. You want a product say. You go to the website, then you input the specification you want. The computer instructs the computer down at the factory to build it the way you want it built. As it goes along the conveyor belt the robots know it is your order and they build it the way you have asked for it. Even if it is a complex item and the factory is supplied with sub-assemblies, they too will be build according to what you want. Then It all gets all gets tested by machine and the robots put it in the post. That's how the new Chinese businesses are starting to operate.

    So think about it. The value cake will be different to how it is now. Those who work in machine learning will find lots of work. The jobs will be highly specialist, like material science, physics and chemistry. The manual workers will be nearly all out of jobs.
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