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Thread: Euro elections

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Findeton View Post
    Well, next "snapshot" is in 2022. You're speculating, and general elections in France will take place every 5 years. That won't happen for the Brexit referendum.
    You in the mood Findeton.
    17,410,742 people said LEAVE!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by beelbeeb View Post
    I thought the Brexit line was that the EU Parliament wasn't a proper Parliament and was just a powerless talking shop?

    Now it's apparently powerful enough to "throw sand in the works"?
    As I have repeatedly pointed out ...

    As a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, I have the right to lobby my MP as a private citizen and put to them a suggestion that they may wish to support, which they have the right to bring directly to the house as a private member's bill. Or, naturally, they may pursue other channels to make the government consider such a measure.

    In this way every citizen of the country has the RIGHT to bring whatever they wish to the attention of the elected member for their constituency who has the right and the authority to initiate statute legislation embodying that suggestion.

    Naysayers will point to the various obstacles that stand in the way of this taking place, not least of which is the power of the government to crush such attempts if they do not like them, but this is an odious strawman diverting attention from the absolutely vital and fundamental principle that this process exists and is there to be used.

    In stark contrast the elected members of the EUROPEAN parliament have absolutely NO such powers. It is in THAT sense that the European Parliament has chosen a path fundamentally different to that in use by the mother of Parliaments and should rightly be castigated for this at every possible opportunity.

    It is for that reason that the European Parliament is considered by me, and many others, to not be a "proper" parliament. Others may have other arguments to the same end from other origins, i have no problem with that, but they will have to speak for themselves.

    In stark contrast, the European Parliament is a rubber stamp for the policy decisions initiated by the twenty seven (or is it 28 now) apppointees of the prime ministers of the individual states to the Council Of Ministers. The and they alone initiate legislation, which the MEP's can only rubber stamp with a "yes/no" vote.

    Thanks to the way we have been sold down the river by Maastricht and Lisbon, those 27/28 now have the absolute power to eradicate from the united kingdom statute books any and all legislation they do not like, even if every single voter in the united kingdom opposes the eradication of such statute law.

    That's your first criticism shot down.

    Now for your second.

    I would have thought it obvious that while the MEP's have no power to being legislation to the table, they can certainly conspire to wreak havoc with the passage of any and all of it. Hence the sand-casting ability...
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    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnofgwent View Post
    In stark contrast, the European Parliament is a rubber stamp for the policy decisions initiated by the twenty seven (or is it 28 now) apppointees of the prime ministers of the individual states to the Council Of Ministers. The and they alone initiate legislation, which the MEP's can only rubber stamp with a "yes/no" vote.

    Thanks to the way we have been sold down the river by Maastricht and Lisbon, those 27/28 now have the absolute power to eradicate from the united kingdom statute books any and all legislation they do not like, even if every single voter in the united kingdom opposes the eradication of such statute law.
    It is true that MEPs cannot initiate legislation, and it is true it would be more democratic if they could.

    But MEPs are not just rubber stamping. First, because laws need to be approved by them, if the European Parliament says no, it won't become a law. Secondly, MEPs can propose amendments as well.

    And by comparison, you've also got the House of the Lords, which is way worse than the Commission.

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  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Findeton View Post

    And by comparison, you've also got the House of the Lords, which is way worse than the Commission.
    Exactly.

    There are many arguments for and against eu membership , and i dont believe anyone pretends the eu is perfect , but you have to laugh at the elephant in the room when the british start talking about the undemocratic nature of the eu.

    You had political parties like ukip getting a large percentage of the popular vote , but failing to get many seats due to the undemocratic nature of the dodgy FPTP system. We have the aformentioned house of lords , the second biggest legislature in the entire world , a four hundred year old law in England that says the head of state can only be a white european protestant ,church of england bishops voting in the lords , you could go on and on.

    Personally i prefer it when folk like old borchester tell us they want to leave the eu , not for economic reasons , or anything else but the fact he wants england out of it without needing to invent bogeymen or ignore the skeletons in his own countries closet.

    You might disagree with it , but you can also admire it in its simplicity.
    "Pour l’Angleterre … il n’y a pas d’alliance qui tienne, ni de traité qui vaille, ni la vérité qui compte." Charles De Gaulle

    Alba gu brath An rud is fhiach a ghabhail, 's fhiach e iarraidh

  6. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Findeton View Post
    It is true that MEPs cannot initiate legislation, and it is true it would be more democratic if they could.

    But MEPs are not just rubber stamping. First, because laws need to be approved by them, if the European Parliament says no, it won't become a law. Secondly, MEPs can propose amendments as well.

    And by comparison, you've also got the House of the Lords, which is way worse than the Commission.
    Do you know of any commission proposals that have been rejected? If not, then it really IS a rubber stamping chamber.
    New Brexit party seems OK

  7. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Do you know of any commission proposals that have been rejected? If not, then it really IS a rubber stamping chamber.
    Of course many proposals get rejected. You can see it here, for example. So no, it's not a rubber stamping chamber.

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