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Thread: Bloody Sunday: Soldier F faces murder charges

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    Bloody Sunday: Soldier F faces murder charges

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47540271

    I am not sentimental about the British army. Friends and relatives have been strongly advised to join up or start an exciting career sewing mail bags and that was generally agreed to be one of the beck's better ideas. And having betrayed the country to the EU I don't suppose that the powers that be are bothered by betraying a pensioner or two to the Tims and Taigs,

    But it does seem rather bad timing even by Dozy Doris's cack handed standards.

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    Wrong on all fronts. Whose bright idea was it to send 1 Para in against a protest march? Also if IRA and Loyalist Paramilitaries are immune, so should RUC as was and military units.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Borchester View Post
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47540271

    I am not sentimental about the British army. Friends and relatives have been strongly advised to join up or start an exciting career sewing mail bags and that was generally agreed to be one of the beck's better ideas. And having betrayed the country to the EU I don't suppose that the powers that be are bothered by betraying a pensioner or two to the Tims and Taigs,

    But it does seem rather bad timing even by Dozy Doris's cack handed standards.
    Bad things happened and the peace process was supposed to draw a line under this for all concerned,I know I said it before but if that barsteward Bliar gets away with what he did then anyone who can't see this is a disgrace needs the help of specsavers.
    The new parliamentary democracy,it's not the will of the people that counts but the will of 650......will come back to haunt them.

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    I can't post a screenshot, but basically, the murdering Irish scum sorted a deal that gave them immunity and then played Simon Wiesenthal game

    If you don't want to make a serious enemy of me, anyone who thinks this is a good idea should dig up Martin mcguinness and behead him posthumously.... then start working down his list of still living pals .....

    THEN I'll agree putting a soldier on trial for something that happened in an Irish war is a good idea
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    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnofgwent View Post
    dig up Martin mcguinness and behead him posthumously....

    I suspect what he was guilty of will never be publicly known. I have always found it very strange a British army sniper had a clear shot at him and was refused permission to fire.

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    That is what happens when politicians get in the way of common sense!

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    This will reopen wounds that were trying to heal after the GFA. It brings it into disrepute and begins to unravel it, leading to a hard border and a way out of the Brexit impasse. Or am I being cynical here?

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    This is the most plausible version of the event: During one of your innumerable wars with the French--the Seven Years War--Admiral Bing's wing of the fleet he commanded in the western Mediterranean was left to battle the French fleet he encountered without full strength. Reportedly by some historians, this occurred because his brother-in-law who commanded the rear wing held back and failed to support him. After a drawn battle in which the French drew off, (Bing still did rather well), the Admiralty decided to shoot him for basically failure to win and engage with maximum aggression or some such cant. One of your German kings, George II, decided to remain aloof and and allow him to swing. In fact, George had previously made damaging remarks about this character. (Actually, Bing and his war council had made reasonable military decisions.)

    When the King of France heard about this, he asked why a man who had done a rather good job had been executed. He was answered: "Pour encourager les autres." ("To encourage the others.") You see, to terrorize the naval officers into maximum aggression, one was sacrificed. They made an example of him to teach the others a lesson. Was it just? This is the question we ask of the Bloody Sunday verdict, and if you think about it, the event itself.

    So, now one soldier of the many who fired into a crowd was sacrificed, perhaps in the hope that the people on both sides will let this awful episode rest. Should both sides accept the flawed verdict and move on? We must remember that peace is always more advisable than war, (though occasionally it is not attainable because of public emotion and private political machinations.) The only people who think war is glorious and exciting are those who have little knowledge of it or those few crazed souls who walk among us. That is why Michael Collins made a peace which continued and still continues to have been arguably an armistice. That is why the GFA was negotiated, to try to make a peace. (It didn't, but it at least curtailed a great deal of violence for many years.)

    I have great sadness when I read the venom spewed against the Irish in this forum. I wonder why it is allowed to continue? I mentioned this privately to someone who is in a position to do something about it but was myself chastised instead for a salient remark. I am not Irish, but hell, the Irish girls sure are pretty and of course they give the world James Joyce, tenors, poets, dancers and excellent whiskey.

    We must all eventually acknowledge though, (albeit some of you kicking and screaming), that eventually demographics will cause the northern counties to re-unite with the Republic.

    If anyone can subdue their emotions and think about this problem calmly, to condemn the Irish revolutionaries as "terrorists" who committed barbarities reminds us of the Vietnamese who were so labeled by my fellow citizens, or the Algerians whom the French authorities demonized; or if you want the Palestinians who continually struggle to maintain a homeland. Nearly everyone, (who incidentally have little knowledge of history), consistently and unaccountably fails to consider that no one will be able to separate a people from its fundamental cultural roots. (As I have often pointed out during EU commentary.) A people will eventually be united. South and North Korea will be reunited. Time is relative to us. We think that our lifetimes are very long. If something doesn't occur in many decades, we mistakenly believe the status quo will continue. We are so vain, are we not?! Good article in the Guardian today criticizing the unjust verdict.
    Last edited by dazed; 16-03-2019 at 02:27 PM. Reason: corrections and one additional remark

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    Quote Originally Posted by dazed View Post
    This is the most plausible version of the event: During one of your innumerable wars with the French--the Seven Years War--Admiral Bing's wing of the fleet he commanded in the western Mediterranean was left to battle the French fleet he encountered without full strength. Reportedly by some historians, this occurred because his brother-in-law who commanded the rear wing held back and failed to support him. After a drawn battle in which the French drew off, (Bing still did rather well), the Admiralty decided to shoot him for basically failure to win and engage with maximum aggression or some such cant. One of your German kings, George II, decided to remain aloof and and allow him to swing. In fact, George had previously made damaging remarks about this character. (Actually, Bing and his war council had made reasonable military decisions.)

    When the King of France heard about this, he asked why a man who had done a rather good job had been executed. He was answered: "Pour encourager les autres." ("To encourage the others.") You see, to terrorize the naval officers into maximum aggression, one was sacrificed. They made an example of him to teach the others a lesson. Was it just? This is the question we ask of the Bloody Sunday verdict, and if you think about it, the event itself.

    So, now one soldier of the many who fired into a crowd was sacrificed, perhaps in the hope that the people on both sides will let this awful episode rest. Should both sides accept the flawed verdict and move on? We must remember that peace is always more advisable than war, (though occasionally it is not attainable because of public emotion and private political machinations.) The only people who think war is glorious and exciting are those who have little knowledge of it or those few crazed souls who walk among us. That is why Michael Collins made a peace which continued and still continues to have been arguably an armistice. That is why the GFA was negotiated, to try to make a peace. (It didn't, but it at least curtailed a great deal of violence for many years.)

    I have great sadness when I read the venom spewed against the Irish in this forum. I wonder why it is allowed to continue? I mentioned this privately to someone who is in a position to do something about it but was myself chastised instead for a salient remark. I am not Irish, but hell, the Irish girls sure are pretty and of course they give the world James Joyce, tenors, poets, dancers and excellent whiskey.

    We must all eventually acknowledge though, (albeit some of you kicking and screaming), that eventually demographics will cause the northern counties to re-unite with the Republic.

    If anyone can subdue their emotions and think about this problem calmly, to condemn the Irish revolutionaries as "terrorists" who committed barbarities reminds us of the Vietnamese who were so labeled by my fellow citizens, or the Algerians whom the French authorities demonized; or if you want the Palestinians who continually struggle to maintain a homeland. Nearly everyone, (who incidentally have little knowledge of history), consistently and unaccountably fails to consider that no one will be able to separate a people from its fundamental cultural roots. (As I have often pointed out during EU commentary.) A people will eventually be united. South and North Korea will be reunited. Time is relative to us. We think that our lifetimes are very long. If something doesn't occur in many decades, we mistakenly believe the status quo will continue. We are so vain, are we not?! Good article in the Guardian today criticizing the unjust verdict.
    Well, it certainly encourages me to go out and find every one of the 200? terrorists handed "get out of a noose free" letters by Peter Hain (You know the letter I mean, the one that put paid to the trial of a terrorist wanted for bombing a British military band on the British mainland)... and ensure I do something that causes them a lingering, painful and long drawn out death...

    A little over the top I suppose, seeing that the death by vaporization in the white heat of a bonb blast they served up to a friend of mine was supposedly mercifully quick

    But I guess me being encouraged to deliver what Peter Hain helped them wriggle out of isn't QUITE the 'encouragement' you had in mind is it.

    It is, nonetheless, the encouragement i see

    Because while I readily admit I see no way to be as forgiving as you think I should be, I see no evidence that the forgiving is anything other than a one way street with all the giving being done by the friends and family if the victims, and all the taking being done by those who really should be swinging from a noose ...
    --
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    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

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    I will just repeat what I said on the other thread.

    The Paras are Fast, Hard, Assault Troops - the Classic hammers that see every job as to do with nails.
    If Paras were sent to a location, they will simply have assumed that they were there to do what they are trained to do and always do and that this was exactly what their Political Masters had deployed them there to do. They are some of the last units, you would deploy for Peace Keeping!
    Their Political Masters should also have been fully aware of this and so it is these gentleman that the awkward questions should be addressed.

    On an aside, there is a reason why many countries have a Paramilitary Police Force that runs along side the regular Civilian Police Force and I would say that Bloody Sunday is as good an illustration of why, as any I can think of.

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