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Thread: The day democracy died

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Sorry but your logic doesn’t stack up. You voted remain because you thought that leave would not be carried out properly.

    The only reason to vote remain was if you didn’t want to leave the EU.
    Absolutely not. Thinking we are better off in or out of the EU is a matter of individual opinion, and thinking that a binary vote such as that with which we were presented was a good or bad way of deciding the issue is a separate matter of individual opinion.
    It's amazing how common this narcissism is: I disagree with person A, and I also disagree with person B, therefore A and B are identical - Daniel Hannan

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  3. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I'm not disputing any of that, my point is, if the country had got behind the leave result we would not be where we are now. The Government would have no choice but to deliver a REAL Brexit and not this fudged /trying to please both sides fiasco.
    But what would a REAL Brexit look like? No-one has a plan. Parliament voted overwhelmingly to trigger Article 50 two years ago, so it's no use pretending that's where the betrayal lies. The betrayal lies with those who promised the moon and then ran away when their campaign won.
    It's amazing how common this narcissism is: I disagree with person A, and I also disagree with person B, therefore A and B are identical - Daniel Hannan

  4. #213
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    Democracy has failed along with the governments negotiating strategy. We should have negotiated harder at the beginning and told the EU the size of tariffs we would put on their imports if they didn't give us a proper deal. We should have insisted that a trade deal be agreed simultaneously with the WA but we just went along with the EU's strategy and ended up with this stupid backstop.

    May's deal with the EU isn't any good and staying in looks like it may be a better deal and less embarrassing than leaving with a bad deal. We pay £39 billion and still can't trade outside the EU on our own terms.

    How on earth is she starting to win over more votes to her deal? I still don't think the DUP will change their minds and a new vote may not even happen.

    Labour are holding some strong cards at the moment but I suspect they would rather play them to help get them into power than help the country. By that I mean they would be prepared to force a general election before Brexit rather than resolve Brexit.

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  6. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by matress View Post
    Democracy has failed along with the governments negotiating strategy. We should have negotiated harder at the beginning and told the EU the size of tariffs we would put on their imports if they didn't give us a proper deal. We should have insisted that a trade deal be agreed simultaneously with the WA but we just went along with the EU's strategy and ended up with this stupid backstop.

    May's deal with the EU isn't any good and staying in looks like it may be a better deal and less embarrassing than leaving with a bad deal. We pay £39 billion and still can't trade outside the EU on our own terms.

    How on earth is she starting to win over more votes to her deal? I still don't think the DUP will change their minds and a new vote may not even happen.

    Labour are holding some strong cards at the moment but I suspect they would rather play them to help get them into power than help the country. By that I mean they would be prepared to force a general election before Brexit rather than resolve Brexit.
    I heard somebody from the Europe talking, I didn't get who he was but probably not official, but he agrees with you, he stated that agreeing to pay 39 billion up front and then accepting the deal that he reckons the EU gave her, she lost her negotiating hand immediately. No surprises there. The EU knew she was dealing with a remainer Parliament so they could do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uganda View Post
    It's not true that enough of them said that. I was pointing to major figures in the business of selling the snake-oil who said otherwise. How many Leave votes were cast for staying in the single market and how many for getting out? We don't know the answer to that.
    So who did say we'd stay in the single market?
    The new parliamentary democracy,it's not the will of the people that counts but the will of 650......will come back to haunt them.

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    Barry (18-03-2019)

  9. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by cromwell View Post

    So who did say we'd stay in the single market?
    Clegg was poleaxed in that interview. Just like he was over college fees. He can't be trusted, he was even lying in that interview. I can't understand why the Mrs. likes him.
    17,410,742 people said LEAVE!

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  11. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by uganda View Post
    Absolutely not. Thinking we are better off in or out of the EU is a matter of individual opinion, and thinking that a binary vote such as that with which we were presented was a good or bad way of deciding the issue is a separate matter of individual opinion.
    Who ever said they voted leave to be better off? I’m quite happy to take a short term hit to get away from the EU. And I would wager 99% of leave voters on here would say the same.
    I can explain it to you, but I canít understand it for you.

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  13. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by uganda View Post
    But what would a REAL Brexit look like? No-one has a plan. Parliament voted overwhelmingly to trigger Article 50 two years ago, so it's no use pretending that's where the betrayal lies. The betrayal lies with those who promised the moon and then ran away when their campaign won.
    A real Brexit would look like the UK out of EU control. 39 billion or not, not bothered that much about that as a one of divorce bill.
    I can explain it to you, but I canít understand it for you.

  14. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by uganda View Post
    But what would a REAL Brexit look like? No-one has a plan. Parliament voted overwhelmingly to trigger Article 50 two years ago, so it's no use pretending that's where the betrayal lies. The betrayal lies with those who promised the moon and then ran away when their campaign won.
    A real brexit is what the UK is getting. It doesn't get more real than this clusterf eck.

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