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Thread: Extension

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Jefe View Post
    thats the Law
    Which law is that?

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by cromwell View Post
    TBH Gerry and I'm not being rude to you here I really don't give a rats arse if the eu gives an extension or not or even if our parliament will ask.

    I had little faith in the political institutions of the eu and that was one reason I wanted out,I have little faith in our parliament........but that's something we can change.

    Ive always said I have no problem with the people of Europe but do with the political entity of the eu and we know we can't change that,it's like being on a feckin roundabout I want to get off because it's going nowhere I want to be.
    You have as much influence in changing EU institute as much as UK ones.
    You have 1 vote and your's counts to elect an MP, eventually a govt. You can't influence the hereditary peers in the HOL.
    You have 1 vote and your's counts to elect an MEP, eventually the EU parliament.
    You have 1 vote and your's counts to elect your PM, that person represents you in the EU council
    You have 1 vote and your's counts to elect your PM, that person picks your Commissioner in the EU commission.

    You might not like the EU, and you can leave at any moment. The problem your having with leaving is with your Parliament, not the EU. Pity your democratically elected MP's don't follow through and do what the people asked.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by matress View Post
    Why??

    - - - Updated - - -



    Why??
    The referendum was advisory, parliment was under no obligation to vote to trigger article 50 regardless of what Cameron promised to win over UKIP voters.

    Had they voted not to trigger that would have been entirely democratic, even if it would be political suicide for the Tories and MP's in Leave majority constituencies.

    Equally parliment can vote to withdraw article 50 if it so chooses but again the Tories and certain MP's are afraid of the consequences.

    We have a parlimentary democracy. We vote an MP into power, they vote in parliment on decisions and are then held to account during the next GE.

  4. #304
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    Oh OK. So as Art50 has been triggered, we can completely ignore Parliament's vote about "no deal" as that was advisory. Good one.

    I can't believe how asinine this line of argument is. Ignore a referendum because it was advisory. How naive are you?
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

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  6. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by matress View Post
    Under EU law they would have to continue with the current arrangements but yes everything is up for negotiation. Additional payments wouldn't go down too well here either so there are still big questions about such an arrangement.

    The permutations seem to be endless with Brexit but there is a chance they will refuse an extension and we will have to make a decision. The more likely route is a short extension but at the moment I don't think our rider that we will vote on Mays deal again will cut it with them. Why would anybody consider engaging with a pile of manure again. Even if every single member of the ERG voted for the deal the DUP probably wouldn't. From what I'm hearing there are still ERG members who will never vote for Mays deal. I could be wrong but the general consensus among the reports I have read is that Mays deal is dead or too close to being dead for the EU to allow an extension just based on that. In their shoes I would ask for more before agreeing to a short extension. It could be they demand a second referendum if the vote fails. A brave suggestion but if they did but we would probably have to go for it. What else could we do? I'll give it some thought myself.
    Your prob right, if the UK gets to remain for any time it should be on current terms.
    We'll know soon enough, but has the UK sent the extension request, they wouldn't want to to long, only 2 weeks to go. The EU needs to meet and consider the application, that will take time and once the leaving date goes by the UK is out, even if it's by default.

  7. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trukhari View Post
    The referendum was advisory, parliment was under no obligation to vote to trigger article 50 regardless of what Cameron promised to win over UKIP voters.

    Had they voted not to trigger that would have been entirely democratic, even if it would be political suicide for the Tories and MP's in Leave majority constituencies.

    Equally parliment can vote to withdraw article 50 if it so chooses but again the Tories and certain MP's are afraid of the consequences.

    We have a parlimentary democracy. We vote an MP into power, they vote in parliment on decisions and are then held to account during the next GE.
    There has been no referendum to withdraw article 50 and to do so without one would be less democratic than triggering with one.

  8. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by matress View Post
    In a previous post I had suggested that the EU may insist as a precondition of an extension that the UK held a second referendum.

    If they did this what could parliament do? Parliament would have to consider either a) Disorderly exit b) Revoke A50 c) 2nd Referendum.

    Which option would Parliament plop for? Given Parliaments inability to decide on anything and always take the path of least resistance my money would be on a referendum.

    On second thoughts I don't think the EU are brave, and some would say stupid, enough to put that to the UK.
    I don't think the EU will put it to the UK, I think the EU will ask why are the UK asking for an extension. As in what are they planning to do during that time that is in any way different to what's being happening to date

  9. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry T View Post
    I don't think the EU will put it to the UK, I think the EU will ask why are the UK asking for an extension. As in what are they planning to do during that time that is in any way different to what's being happening to date
    Looks like the EU just might put something to the UK
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47557216

  10. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by matress View Post
    In a previous post I had suggested that the EU may insist as a precondition of an extension that the UK held a second referendum.

    If they did this what could parliament do? Parliament would have to consider either a) Disorderly exit b) Revoke A50 c) 2nd Referendum.

    Which option would Parliament plop for? Given Parliaments inability to decide on anything and always take the path of least resistance my money would be on a referendum.

    On second thoughts I don't think the EU are brave, and some would say stupid, enough to put that to the UK.
    That suggestion is madness. That's not how the EU operates, that's not what the treaty says. The UK can make a request for an extension, and in it, it would need to explain why it needs more time and how it's going to use it. The EU may or not grant the request and explain its decision, but it won't tell the UK what it should do.

  11. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by boggart View Post
    Oh OK. So as Art50 has been triggered, we can completely ignore Parliament's vote about "no deal" as that was advisory. Good one.

    I can't believe how asinine this line of argument is. Ignore a referendum because it was advisory. How naive are you?
    As it stands the no deal vote can be ignored since it has no power to stop a no deal exit.

    I said parliment could have ignored the referendum because it was advisory within the context of a wider arguement. If you're just going to cherry pick sentences and take them out of context to try and score points you have nothing to contribute.

    On the topic of the referendum it can be seen as slim majority or just 37% of eligable voters who supported Leave. That alone is grounds for parliment not voting for significant constitutionsl change even before considering the lies and irregularities of the Leave campaign.

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