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Thread: What have you got to lose?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by boggart View Post
    WTO tariffs for the beef are something like 70%. Protectionism works both ways, so suspect (but happy to be corrected) that it is retaliation to protectionist measures put in place by the EU to help EU farming (ie the French)

    <rant on>

    But I am disappointed by your post Borchester as you should be buying British beef. I am president of the local agricultural society and am having to write a piece for the year book. Of course Brexit is going to be mentioned, not leas that in all the discussions we have in this country, it tends to be about bankers, Nissan and JLR. How often do you hear about the farmer?? The other part was to call for a countering of the constant self-denigration that seems to be taking place in this country, and really to bang the "buy British" drum. Start with the primary goods and secondary goods that are made from our own primary ones, and then take it from there. I was in the supermarket earlier today, and looked at the butter section. A bit of English (own label and Country Life) that was swamped by French, Danish, Irish and New Zealand butter. Why?? If we in this country aren't going to buy and support our own industries, why on earth would you expect anyone else in the world to buy our goods??

    <rant off>
    To be honest boggart, I (or rather my wife) tend to shop by price rather than country and I don't eat that much meat anyway. Most of the farmers I know tend to regard holiday makers as their main cash crop, but I have a friend in Wales who sells us the occasional chunk of cow.

    I reckon that farming in the UK is buggered. I don't like to say it but British farmers are the victims of their own sucess. UK farming is so efficient (my friend, bad back and worse knees still runs a three hundred acre farm. Her real problem isn't the farm but getting staff to clean the holiday cottages) that pretty soon there will be a dozen small holdings feeding the nation. Which will be good for the consumers but not the farmers.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by boggart View Post
    The Solemn Declaration goes on about "the European Identity" and working to strengthen it. Now I have asked many times before, but no one seems to have answered me. What is "the European Identity"? I often ask what the Portuguese and the Finns have in common, but you could add a plethora of countries into that question.
    I think you will find historic connections between most EU countries. We all share, to a geater or lesser extent, the same civilization and culture. Take ourselves where we share Scandanavian, German, French and Italian (and indeed other) ancestry. In fact I think we woud be pretty hard pressed not to find connections between most countries. We are also, for better or for worse, geographically connected on the continant called Europe. So we are all Europeans, whether we like it or not.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by boggart View Post
    That doesn't seem to have stopped most of mainland Europe judging the UK and its citizenry.

    I am afraid to say that I, and many others, find that mainland EU looks down on Britain. They dislike us. They mistreat us. They want our money.... and it will be their own fault if they have shot one of the geese that lays the golden eggs.
    We are different and, being different, some people (fortunately not "all") look down on those that are different. However one must admit that our differences can be a bit of a PITA for them, and even for us (but we are used to it and many poeple do not even notice the problems).

    Also, we always want to have exceptions and derogations, just for us and that gets on people's nerves. On the other hand, we have a reputation for being the "bad boy of Europe" and that is false. However the mud sticks. In fact the French are far more unruly than we are. We apply EU directives quickly and firmly. The French often try to dodge them or delay implementation until they are threatened with a fine... and even then... This is one of the reasons why, for example, EDF (Electricitť De France) maintained a monopoly in France for so long, and yet were able to establish themselves so easily in the UK.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Jefe View Post
    How so? - I have lived and worked in both Germany and Holland and immensely enjoyed both experiences because I like Germany and Holland - the EU is irrelevant.
    No, the EU is not irrelevant. If, in the future, your children want to move to Germany or Holland without any problems at all and work there or set up business or whstever.... they will not be able to do so if we leave the EU. We will be denying your children what you yourself enjoyed.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnda View Post
    No, the EU is not irrelevant. If, in the future, your children want to move to Germany or Holland without any problems at all and work there or set up business or whstever.... they will not be able to do so if we leave the EU. We will be denying your children what you yourself enjoyed.
    Your clearly don’t want to leave the EU but there is no IF, we are leaving.
    I can explain it to you, but I canít understand it for you.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnda View Post
    If, in the future, your children want to move to Germany or Holland without any problems at all and work there or set up business or whstever.... they will not be able to do so
    Which is why London is the financial capital of the world. When investors arrive the British roll out the red carpet while the Dutch and Germans reach for the red tape

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnda View Post
    No, the EU is not irrelevant. If, in the future, your children want to move to Germany or Holland without any problems at all and work there or set up business or whstever.... they will not be able to do so if we leave the EU. We will be denying your children what you yourself enjoyed.
    You know people from the UK were working in European countries be fore the EU, I did so myself. You'd think the UK was going to outer Mongolian!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassie View Post
    You know people from the UK were working in European countries be fore the EU, I did so myself. You'd think the UK was going to outer Mongolian!
    Things have changed... a lot! In any case, from experience I can tell you that before the EU we had NO automatic rights to anything.

    Your children will lose ALL their automtic rights.

    If you live in Manchester and your children get a job in London, can they do so without problems? Yes they can. If they hop on the Eurostar to take a job in Paris, can they do so automatically? Yes they can.

    Will they be able to after Brexit? No way!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Your clearly don’t want to leave the EU but there is no IF, we are leaving.
    The bookmaker betting odds show a considerably higher likelihood of our NOT leaving on 29 March. (FACT)

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnda View Post
    The bookmaker betting odds show a considerably higher likelihood of our NOT leaving on 29 March. (FACT)
    Oh come on. Bookmakers just give odds to balance things out to mitigate any losses and maximise profit. If I place a bet for £10m on us leaving, then their odds would dramatically swing. Look at the last time people presumed they knew what was going on with Brexit - we voted to leave.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

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