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Thread: What have you got to lose?

  1. #1
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    What have you got to lose?

    I just asked this in a post but itís a fairly poignant question.

    Personally, what do you think you will lose post Brexit?

    As I have said previously I like my French wine but if the price went up exponentially I would just drink something else. I donít holiday in Europe even though I mainly transit through either AMS or CDG. They are European carriers and arenít likely to block their own planes.

    In conclusion bugger all is going to change for me...
    I can explain it to you, but I canít understand it for you.

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    Let me think

    The Euro?........Nah not in that
    Schengen?........Ditto
    The eu itself......No,but I did think the common market was a good idea
    Still there is a gain we are joining a new organisation....the FU we're the only members,for now but come the euro parliament election I suspect there may be more than a few anti eu members from across Europe and they will cause aggro ........and when it comes to blame for that who will the blame be heaped on? us and brexit.......so no change there.
    The new parliamentary democracy,it's not the will of the people that counts but the will of 650......will come back to haunt them.

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    Three of the four languages on the signs on the toilet door in the factory saying now wash your hands...

    I am told it currently says it in Polish Romanian Serbo-Croat and THEN English and THEN Urdu...
    --
    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

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    Quote Originally Posted by cromwell View Post
    Let me think...
    The eu itself......No,but I did think the common market was a good idea
    ...
    I do not remember if you said you had lived and worked in another EU country. If not, you cannot miss what you have never known

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnda View Post
    I do not remember if you said you had lived and worked in another EU country. If not, you cannot miss what you have never known
    Why do you keep on going on about it (and noted you have changed the wording of that question)? You asked me, and when I said that I had lived and worked in the EEC as well as the EU, there was no come back. So if someone pro-leave has not worked in another EU country, they are obviously ignorant, but those who have can just be ignored as it is a tad inconvenient that it doesn't fit the argument? Is that it?
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boggart View Post
    Why do you keep on going on about it (and noted you have changed the wording of that question)? You asked me, and when I said that I had lived and worked in the EEC as well as the EU, there was no come back. So if someone pro-leave has not worked in another EU country, they are obviously ignorant, but those who have can just be ignored as it is a tad inconvenient that it doesn't fit the argument? Is that it?
    I ask this question because the vast majority of people base their opinions on what they experience from seeing other EU nationals here in this country. But this is only half of the picture. The other half, and IMO the most relevant, is the experience of being a UK national living in another EU country. That is where we get real persoanl experience.

    If someone stays in an isolated village all his life (taking an extreme example), the only effects of the EU on him will be what he sees in the local shops and, quite frankly, that is not valid experience of the EU one way or another. If, on the other hand, he had lived, say like you in France, he would have had not only the comparison with the French local shops, but also the experience of everything else, some things better some things worse, some much the same. Whatever the outcome, that person would have experience in at least two EU countries and would be able to judge better. Also, even speaking another language broadens one's viewpoint in many ways.

    I can't see how you, or anyone, could disagree with this.

    PS, there was an indirect "comeback" from your reply and that was the pleasure of discussing things with you knowing that you had had that real experience

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    I can disagree with you as the number living and working abroad, like you and I have, is so much less than those who have never done so. However, I am not going to criticise their choice over Brexit just because they haven't lived/worked abroad. Have the likes of Ken Clark, Dominic Grieve, Anna Soubry, Keir Starmer, Corbyn, May, Cable, Sturgeon etc lived and worked abroad? And if you go down the line of who is most qualified to speak about the EU due to their experience in living and working on mainland Europe, then Farage must be at the head of the list.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boggart View Post
    I can disagree with you as the number living and working abroad, like you and I have, is so much less than those who have never done so. However, I am not going to criticise their choice over Brexit just because they haven't lived/worked abroad. Have the likes of Ken Clark, Dominic Grieve, Anna Soubry, Keir Starmer, Corbyn, May, Cable, Sturgeon etc lived and worked abroad? And if you go down the line of who is most qualified to speak about the EU due to their experience in living and working on mainland Europe, then Farage must be at the head of the list.
    Point taken. My point is valid too. The ideal case in this discussion would be that everybody had had real experience in at least 2 (including the UK as 1) EU countries. I am sure that we would be more broad-minded and more tolerent... but that is purely hypothetical.

    However, when someone is asked what they "will miss" then, without having had that real experience, there is not a lot to "miss". It they never intend to live elsewhere in the EU either, then they have no real personal interest in the question. But do they have the right to deny future generations what they themselves had no interest in?

    As for politicians, except for those who have real guts and personal convictions (Anna Soubry comes to mind) with no ulterior motives (Farage and Johnson come to mind), the majority are more interested in Party politics than the good of the country. They are no more qualified than anyone else. This is one of the reasons that parliament is in a total deadlock. IMO there should be a series of annonymous FREE votes in parliament. How can one call our system a democrcy when free votes are not allowed in Parliament, the people are denied a vote and one unelected woman decides on the future of our country. It is the stuff of a dicttorship... but I rant on... forgive me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnda View Post
    I ask this question because the vast majority of people base their opinions on what they experience from seeing other EU nationals here in this country.
    No we don't, but if I were to engage in such sweeping generalisations I would say that the great weakness of the Remain campaign has been the child like but still counter productive snobbery of the Remainers. The latter seem incapable of regarding Brexiters as little more than barely house trained thugs who are waiting for the coal mines to reopen so that they can fill their bath tubs.

    I can't complain. The blinkered bigotry of Johnda helps strengthen the Brexiters position. However, to clear the air, I have worked in factories and knocking shops (although on the door and not in the upstairs rooms) and building sites all over the world and had a fine time. But now I want my country back.

    As said by various other posters, I can't see a lot of change come Brexit. Gerry was explaining a while back that the cost of Irish beef would rocket for some reason or other so I will eat less of it. One of my nieces, with splendid frugality, decided to not only have her son christened at her wedding, but also to serve up sparkling cider instead of champagne, so there are clearly a lot of economies that can still be made without affecting the general gaiety of the nation.

    But overall, I can't see a lot changing.

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  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnda View Post
    I do not remember if you said you had lived and worked in another EU country. If not, you cannot miss what you have never known
    No I haven't ,but I did work and live in Germany before we joined without a problem and loved it .
    The new parliamentary democracy,it's not the will of the people that counts but the will of 650......will come back to haunt them.

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