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Thread: What we might have if we revoke article 50

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Jefe View Post
    The referendum was just advisory - Parlaiment have always had the choice to ignore the result.
    Just like you ignored the fact that both conservative and labour parties alike went into the 2017 election on a manifesto pledge to honour the result of the election.

    Now, of course they has to do that because to admit they wished to take a dump on the democratically expressed will of the people was a step to far for everyone except Vincent "The Gringotts Goblin" Cable and Lammy and his poisonous pals.

    To those who wish not to see rioting on the street, telling the people they got elected on a promise they are now going to ignore is ... exactly what Ted Heath did, and exactly what Tony Blair did over Lisbon.

    When will the British people learn that parliament only listen to those who bomb, maim and kill to get their political objectives met ?

    I suspect thecsnswer to that is five minutes after the wishes of the opening post in this thread come to pass ....
    --
    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by beelbeeb View Post
    1. QMV stays (the UK was a keen proponent of QMV) - I was referring to the fact that EU directives don't have effect in UK law unless and until the UK Parliament legislates they do.
    So the UK still cannot stop all new laws from the EU if they disagree with them.

    2. The 4th rail package doesn't prevent nationalised rail companies. It does have provisions to prevent monopolies, private or public, distorting the market, but nationalised rail companies be they operators or infra structure providers are still permitted.
    When Corbyn (et al) talk about renationalisation they envision a return to British Rail and the entire network being under State control - not something exactly the same as we have now where State owned franchises compete with the private sector on the same rails.

    3. The illegality of deporting EU citizens because they were rough sleeping was decided by a UK (high) court (surely this is what you want?). It deemed the home office policy violated several areas of UK law made in connection with both the EU and ECHR which is separate from the EU (and incorporated into UK law separately).
    A UK high court enforcing EU rules - hardly what Leavers are looking for.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junckrfu View Post
    Referendum might be just advisory but democracy is not.
    and as I pointed out, whether or not the referendum was "advisory" (a deliberate ploy by Cameron which Lammy and Co seize upon at every turn) is a tad irrelevant since the party that now forms Her Majesty's government **AND** the party that - god help us all - forms Her Majesty's Loyal (official) Opposition **BOTH** stood on a platform of respecting the result.
    --
    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Oops. Hit a nerve, did I?
    You are so pro EU you might as well go and live there. I did once and eventually decided I prefer the homeland. The corruption in local government was bad, but it went through the whole country and right up to the top of Brussels. Which is partly why I voted leave.
    It's just childish.

    You do realise the ridiculousness of telling me to go and live on the EU whilst simultaneously removing my right to do so?

    I used to agree with you about the UK having relatively low levels of corruption bit honestly I'm not so sure now.

    Maybe it's not so endemic but we seem to be doing pretty well when it comes to laundering russian cash, or turning a blind eye to political donations.

    Where do you think the Seaborne freight episode will end?

    14m contract announced on an obscure web page on 24th December, with no bidding, to a company with no boat contracts, running out of a port that was about to close and who were explicitly flagged by the independent due diligence parties.

    Yeah that sounds legit.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnofgwent View Post
    and as I pointed out, whether or not the referendum was "advisory" (a deliberate ploy by Cameron which Lammy and Co seize upon at every turn) is a tad irrelevant since the party that now forms Her Majesty's government **AND** the party that - god help us all - forms Her Majesty's Loyal (official) Opposition **BOTH** stood on a platform of respecting the result.
    The referendum was explicitly advisory.

    Party manifestos are not legally binding.

    Regarding the (alleged) opposition, their leader is currently doing everything he can to avoid carrying out the resolution voted for by his party at their last conference and overwhelmingly supported by his members (supporting a people's vote)

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by beelbeeb View Post
    Not quite a cave in at the 11th hour or a U turn...but....
    😲😲😲😲

    + No financial settlement

    + Full access to SM for UK industry - keep Nissan and Airbus happy!

    + Financial passports for all UK institutions - keep those bakers happy!

    + Continuation of all in force EU FTAs inc Japan for UK

    + Consultation & veto of all EU trade deals

    + Full access to EU programs (eg Gallileo, Horizon 2020), including funding - keep the universities happy!

    + Full access to security & policing databases - keeps the police happy and the criminals sad!

    + Permanent opt out of Schengen area - we control our borders!

    + Permanent opt out of - a bit of an iffy project IMHO

    + Permanent opt outs (with opt ins) in Justice and Security areas

    + Permanent veto on Turkey joining - not that that's likely any time soon anyway

    + Permanent veto on EU army - though we can't stop the others cooperating more

    + FR, DE & IT to pay around of UK payments to EU - they hate that!

    + No border in Irish Sea or Ireland - keep the Irish happy!

    + Ability to deport EU nationals who are a burden - no benefit tourists!

    + Ability to refuse entry to EU nationals who pose a threat to public safety - no crime lords! (Unless they are wealthy Russian crime lords with money to launder obviously &#128580

    + Travel and work, visa free for UK citizens in EU - keep those pensioners on the Costa del Sol happy!

    + Seat on all major EU decision making bodies

    + All directives from Brussels to be first passed by UK Parliament before becoming UK law

    + UK gov to control UK fishing quota distribution - overall quotas still to be agreed with EU after taking scientific advice on fish stocks etc

    + Ability to nationalised and even provide assistance to industries (for the Corbynites)

    + Blue passports - for the nostalgic
    You missed the really important one. Obviously you haven't learned anything from 23/6.

    + Be prepared for unforseen circumstances

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by beelbeeb View Post
    It's just childish.

    You do realise the ridiculousness of telling me to go and live on the EU whilst simultaneously removing my right to do so?

    I used to agree with you about the UK having relatively low levels of corruption bit honestly I'm not so sure now.

    Maybe it's not so endemic but we seem to be doing pretty well when it comes to laundering russian cash, or turning a blind eye to political donations.

    Where do you think the Seaborne freight episode will end?

    14m contract announced on an obscure web page on 24th December, with no bidding, to a company with no boat contracts, running out of a port that was about to close and who were explicitly flagged by the independent due diligence parties.

    Yeah that sounds legit.
    The UK is in the top 3 countries globally for corruption. It's endemic and its everywhere.

    The key thing though is that Perfidious Albion has had an awful lot long to prefect the system.

    No dirty seedy brown envelopes stuffed with cash. Instead, here's a non job with our company for 600k per year. We'll need you to sit at a desk for 8 hours a month though.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business...e-capital-firm

    Need you to do an after dinner speech old chap, don't worry, here's a cool 250k for standing there chatting crap.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7418451.html

    Then there's the lordships and various badges that allow you to scoop up free cash and perks.

    Am depressing myself now, so to wrap up...(apologies for using the mail)

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...etires-61.html

    There is no left and right. Your either at the table, or looking at the table. And what are you going to do about it exactly? Same as me, nothing...

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnofgwent View Post
    Just like you ignored the fact that both conservative and labour parties alike went into the 2017 election on a manifesto pledge to honour the result of the election.
    The conservatives pledged no deal is better than a bad deal, and have reversed that. They are now saying that their deal, which hard leavers have said is not really brexit at all, is better than any bad deal such as no deal at all. i think they are now pushing to remain.

    Labour pledged it would not accept any form of Brexit which harmed the UK. So thats all of them.

    to admit they wished to take a dump on the democratically expressed will of the people was a step to far for everyone except Vincent
    Only 1/3 voted to leave. Now its about 55% wanting to remain. Democracy demands we remain.

    To those who wish not to see rioting on the street, telling the people they got elected on a promise they are now going to ignore is ... exactly what Ted Heath did, and exactly what Tony Blair did over Lisbon.
    Should be safe then, because I dont recall any Blair riots. And any riots under heath were about union relations. Oh, and the Irish blowing people up, of course. Bloodshed does seem to be coming back in ireland because of Brexit.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirocco View Post
    The conservatives pledged no deal is better than a bad deal, and have reversed that. They are now saying that their deal, which hard leavers have said is not really brexit at all, is better than any bad deal such as no deal at all. i think they are now pushing to remain.

    Labour pledged it would not accept any form of Brexit which harmed the UK. So thats all of them.

    Only 1/3 voted to leave. Now its about 55% wanting to remain. Democracy demands we remain.

    Should be safe then, because I dont recall any Blair riots. And any riots under heath were about union relations. Oh, and the Irish blowing people up, of course. Bloodshed does seem to be coming back in ireland because of Brexit.
    55% remain is still in the margin of error meaning that the result can go either way.

    Labour is the party of entitled middle classes now. They have a pasting coming at the next GE. My location voted out, the PPC is a remainer. She has no chance...

    Our most recent riots have been due to perceived injustice. If you watch the poll tax riots, you'll see lots of over 50s there (was not a good day to be wearing a suit), on account of it starting peacefully.

    Bloodshed is in Ireland regardless sadly...

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/i...-blast-n960726

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passerby View Post
    5

    Labour is the party of entitled middle classes now. They have a pasting coming at the next GE.

    You are forgetting the post Brexit chaos factor, plus the vote to keep the Tories out campaign in Tory marginals, (Iain Duncan Smith had his majority slashed as a result at the last general election.) Plus also in Tory marginals the victims of welfare reform and austerity are far larger than the Tory majority in those seats.
    The polls have been around 40% each for Tories and Labour for several years now.
    I suspect the next general election will result in no party having a working majority.

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