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Thread: May to blame

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    May to blame

    Convince me May is not to blame for what is happening right now. Remainders can be mad all they want but it is may that has brought the UK to this point. She could have had a deal in place months ago. Now this headline. May is not to blame for Brexit but she is the blame for the economic mess that she is creating by so much uncertainty.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...to-netherlands

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    With the best will in the world she was given an impossible task mainly because those elected to parliament feel entitled that their opinions mean more than the electorate who pay their salaries etc. She has tried hard to satisfy both sides of the argument and slipped up by signing up to a hostage clause (the backstop) which effectively leaves us with no exit. The EU in their well known classic way have played on the naivety of those charged with the negotiations but even having said that all the very public arguments in the media, have given the EU boundless fodder to wrap us up in a fog of uncertainty.

    To allow pro Europeans to lead the negotiations was a massive miscalculation which is still not resolved. However we all know perfectly well that Merkel will take a decision at 11.55pm on 29th March when she finally realises just how fraught her industrialists have become. At present they are listening to all the wimps trying to remove no deal, extend A50, take 2nd vote etc and are hoping that at the last minute the tide will turn. I sincerely hope that we don't do that. If the EU was such a successful project why is it failing economically so spectacularly?

    As with all Ponzi schemes the only way to bolster themselves will be to get even more countries that are less economically viable than those already members, as potential cheap labour, potential markets for the luxury goods with plenty of cheap loans. All of which really only benefit those countries that are married to the global institutions.

    I feel clear in my own mind that the EU regrets the loss of our membership fees rather than anything else.

    Leaving the EU has become as impossible as they can make it but I have always thought that May always knew it would go to the wire. I mostly regret not her but those in parliament who have tried so hard to undermine the people of this country. They are the ones who need to find another job.
    My vote counts just as much as your's xx

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    Quote Originally Posted by T00ts View Post
    With the best will in the world she was given an impossible task mainly because those elected to parliament feel entitled that their opinions mean more than the electorate who pay their salaries etc. She has tried hard to satisfy both sides of the argument and slipped up by signing up to a hostage clause (the backstop) which effectively leaves us with no exit. The EU in their well known classic way have played on the naivety of those charged with the negotiations but even having said that all the very public arguments in the media, have given the EU boundless fodder to wrap us up in a fog of uncertainty.

    To allow pro Europeans to lead the negotiations was a massive miscalculation which is still not resolved. However we all know perfectly well that Merkel will take a decision at 11.55pm on 29th March when she finally realises just how fraught her industrialists have become. At present they are listening to all the wimps trying to remove no deal, extend A50, take 2nd vote etc and are hoping that at the last minute the tide will turn. I sincerely hope that we don't do that. If the EU was such a successful project why is it failing economically so spectacularly?

    As with all Ponzi schemes the only way to bolster themselves will be to get even more countries that are less economically viable than those already members, as potential cheap labour, potential markets for the luxury goods with plenty of cheap loans. All of which really only benefit those countries that are married to the global institutions.

    I feel clear in my own mind that the EU regrets the loss of our membership fees rather than anything else.

    Leaving the EU has become as impossible as they can make it but I have always thought that May always knew it would go to the wire. I mostly regret not her but those in parliament who have tried so hard to undermine the people of this country. They are the ones who need to find another job.
    Sorry but May delayed voting on her deal that wasn't the EU and now more delays again on voting. Tick tock and May is bumbling around like a fool in the dark.

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    I don't totally blame May, everything she has suggested has been met with opposition from some faction of Parliament. A lot of MPs have their own agendas, Labour mostly just want a GE. The SNP can't move from the fact the Scotland voted remain, even though we voted as the UK and the majority vote counts. (I do have some sympathywithr the Scots though, they voted to remain in the UK, then the UK held a referendum to leave the EU, which could be argued, is not quite what the Scots voted for.) I don't know what the Greens angle is, but tomatoes are driven on trucks to the UK that do over 4,000km round trip, which is very environmentally bad - I can barely find a British tomato in the supermarkets - but they want to stay in an organisation that promotes that.

    I think May has been guilty of trying to please everyone and ended up pleasing no-one. Since the referendum vote came through, soft -Brexit, hard-Brexit, deals, falling off a cliff etc were discussed. It all boils down to some MPs just not following the will of the people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cassie View Post
    I don't totally blame May, everything she has suggested has been met with opposition from some faction of Parliament. A lot of MPs have their own agendas, Labour mostly just want a GE. The SNP can't move from the fact the Scotland voted remain, even though we voted as the UK and the majority vote counts. (I do have some sympathy for the Scots though, they voted to remain in the UK, then the UK held a referendum to leave the EU, which could be argued, is not quite what the Scots voted for.) I don't know what the Greens angle is, but tomatoes are driven on trucks to the UK that do over 4,000km round trip, which is very environmentally bad - I can barely find a British tomato in the supermarkets - but they want to stay in an organisation that promotes that.

    I think May has been guilty of trying to please everyone and ended up pleasing no-one. Since the referendum vote came through, soft -Brexit, hard-Brexit, deals, falling off a cliff etc were discussed. It all boils down to some MPs just not following the will of the people.
    I find this a bit of a contradictory post cassie.

    You say it boils down to some mps not following the will of the people , then you accuse the snp from not moving on from scotland voting remain.

    The snp are doing what they were elected to do , representing the vote of their constituents to remain in the eu .

    We have done the "it woz a uk vote" to death on this forum , and it still isnt silencing the snp or sinn fein from standing up for scotland and northern ireland remain votes.

    Im not sure i take toots post earlier in this thread too serious.

    Toots and many others were telling us for a number of years may was a good politician who was going to lead the tory party and the wider disunited kingdom to the sunny brexit uplands , and she has lead her party from one disaster to the next.

    While she did take on a poisoned chalice that was brexit , no one held a gun to her head , in fact i would suggest powers that be behind the scenes found a usefull idiot to lead the charge.

    No one forced her to hold a general election in 2017 , which set the ground for her calamitous brexit negotiations by losing her majority due to a woefull election campaign and manifesto which was roundly criticised by all sides which then led her to partnership with the DUP , further hamstringing her negotiating power .

    No one forced her to set out her many red lines , which then pushed negotiations down a narrow corridor to where they are today.

    In short she has been a complete disaster from start to finish.

    Had she been a strong forward thinking prime minister and consummate politician with a majority in the commons of her own party , you would imagine she and her party would be in a better place.

    Instead she threw her majority away and has blundered from one disaster to the next , and she alone must take responsibility for the current shambles.

    Blaming the snp , sinn fein , the irish , the eu or english remainers wont wash .

    There has been bad losers , politicians playing politics and those with their own agenda throughout history. It hasnt stopped remarkable leaders and those with a clear vision doing what had to be done.

    Theresa may isnt in that category , and isnt up to the job. Simple as that.
    "Pour l’Angleterre … il n’y a pas d’alliance qui tienne, ni de traité qui vaille, ni la vérité qui compte." Charles De Gaulle

    Alba gu brath An rud is fhiach a ghabhail, 's fhiach e iarraidh

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    I find this a bit of a contradictory post cassie.

    You say it boils down to some mps not following the will of the people , then you accuse the snp from not moving on from scotland voting remain.

    The snp are doing what they were elected to do , representing the vote of their constituents to remain in the eu .

    We have done the "it woz a uk vote" to death on this forum , and it still isnt silencing the snp or sinn fein from standing up for scotland and northern ireland remain votes.

    Im not sure i take toots post earlier in this thread too serious.

    Toots and many others were telling us for a number of years may was a good politician who was going to lead the tory party and the wider disunited kingdom to the sunny brexit uplands , and she has lead her party from one disaster to the next.

    While she did take on a poisoned chalice that was brexit , no one held a gun to her head , in fact i would suggest powers that be behind the scenes found a usefull idiot to lead the charge.

    No one forced her to hold a general election in 2017 , which set the ground for her calamitous brexit negotiations by losing her majority due to a woefull election campaign and manifesto which was roundly criticised by all sides which then led her to partnership with the DUP , further hamstringing her negotiating power .

    No one forced her to set out her many red lines , which then pushed negotiations down a narrow corridor to where they are today.

    In short she has been a complete disaster from start to finish.

    Had she been a strong forward thinking prime minister and consummate politician with a majority in the commons of her own party , you would imagine she and her party would be in a better place.

    Instead she threw her majority away and has blundered from one disaster to the next , and she alone must take responsibility for the current shambles.

    Blaming the snp , sinn fein , the irish , the eu or english remainers wont wash .

    There has been bad losers , politicians playing politics and those with their own agenda throughout history. It hasnt stopped remarkable leaders and those with a clear vision doing what had to be done.

    Theresa may isnt in that category , and isnt up to the job. Simple as that.
    In a democracy the majority vote wins. The argument about this has been done to death on another thread, so I'm not getting into that. You will admit though that the SNP has it's own agenda which is another referendum and independence, which is a discussion for another thread. I do totally agree about May's idea to have a GE in 2017, absolutely ridiculous, she was arrogant enough to think she'd win with a landslide, her campaign was weak and centred solely on reminding people that they would get Corbyn if they didn't vote for her, which was very negative. I haven't checked the figures, but despite Labour claiming victory, I've heard it said that he got fewer votes than Brown in 2010. Anyway, you are right, she is to blame for losing her majority and being dependent upon the DUP for power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cassie View Post
    In a democracy the majority vote wins. .
    it does , and in a democracy it is also a never endum.

    Brexiters want to laud democratic principles when it suits , but ignore others when its inconvenient.

    Democracy didnt stop in either 2014 or 2016.


    You will admit thought that the SNP has it's own agenda which is another referendum and independence, which is a discussion for another thread
    of course what wrong with that?

    Their agenda is to represent their constituents , and the parties main aim and principles are clear for all to understand.

    Anyone who thinks the tory party didnt have its own agenda when it called the brexit ref doesnt understand politics.

    I do totally agree about May's idea to have a GE in 2017, absolutely ridiculous, she was arrogant enough to think she'd win with a landslide, her campaign was weak and centred solely on reminding people that they would get Corbyn if they didn't vote for her, which was very negative. I haven't checked the figures, but despite Labour claiming victory, I've heard it said that he got fewer votes than Brown in 2010. Anyway, you are right, she is to blame for losing her majority and being dependent upon the DUP for power.
    you should tell this to toots.

    In toots and other folks minds , theresa mays inadequacies as a politician and prime minister are really the fault of everyone else , whoever they may be or wherever , trying to undermine brexit.

    The fact the tories are in power as a minority government , and less than 7 weeks to go after three years of bleating , cannot enact a simple referendum result appears to be the fault of everyone else bar theresa may and her party.
    "Pour l’Angleterre … il n’y a pas d’alliance qui tienne, ni de traité qui vaille, ni la vérité qui compte." Charles De Gaulle

    Alba gu brath An rud is fhiach a ghabhail, 's fhiach e iarraidh

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    I don't think May is solely to blame. As I see it, the whole situation we're in is because of political arrogance all politicians, British or European. And I'm talking about going back to when we voted to join the Common Market. Why couldn't the Common Market go on as it was? Because politicians decided that this couldn't go on without proper rules and regulations and the only people who could do this was politicians. So the next thing we know, we are being told we have to vote for MEP's. None of the people in Europe were asked if we wanted to, with a vote on the subject. After that it was like Topsy, it just grew and grew until it's become a non reversible institution that is impossible to leave. We've still got the arrogance going on now with politicians saying that the people didn't know what they were voting for so we are magnanimously going to give them another vote so they can get it right this time. And all the time, while our politicians are running around like headless chickens, that lot in Europe are just sitting back, rubbing their hands and saying "We just have to wait and they'll do whatever we want."

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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffu View Post
    I don't think May is solely to blame. As I see it, the whole situation we're in is because of political arrogance all politicians, British or European. And I'm talking about going back to when we voted to join the Common Market. Why couldn't the Common Market go on as it was? Because politicians decided that this couldn't go on without proper rules and regulations and the only people who could do this was politicians. So the next thing we know, we are being told we have to vote for MEP's. None of the people in Europe were asked if we wanted to, with a vote on the subject. After that it was like Topsy, it just grew and grew until it's become a non reversible institution that is impossible to leave. We've still got the arrogance going on now with politicians saying that the people didn't know what they were voting for so we are magnanimously going to give them another vote so they can get it right this time. And all the time, while our politicians are running around like headless chickens, that lot in Europe are just sitting back, rubbing their hands and saying "We just have to wait and they'll do whatever we want."
    A not unreasonable conclusion.
    The new parliamentary democracy,it's not the will of the people that counts but the will of 650......will come back to haunt them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffu View Post
    I don't think May is solely to blame. As I see it, the whole situation we're in is because of political arrogance all politicians, British or European. And I'm talking about going back to when we voted to join the Common Market. Why couldn't the Common Market go on as it was? Because politicians decided that this couldn't go on without proper rules and regulations and the only people who could do this was politicians. So the next thing we know, we are being told we have to vote for MEP's. None of the people in Europe were asked if we wanted to, with a vote on the subject. After that it was like Topsy, it just grew and grew until it's become a non reversible institution that is impossible to leave. We've still got the arrogance going on now with politicians saying that the people didn't know what they were voting for so we are magnanimously going to give them another vote so they can get it right this time. And all the time, while our politicians are running around like headless chickens, that lot in Europe are just sitting back, rubbing their hands and saying "We just have to wait and they'll do whatever we want."
    I dont think anyone is suggesting may is solely to blame , but at some point she has to take responsibility for her own actions since she became prime minister.

    As I see it, the whole situation we're in is because of political arrogance all politicians, British or European. And I'm talking about going back to when we voted to join the Common Market. Why couldn't the Common Market go on as it was? Because politicians decided that this couldn't go on without proper rules and regulations and the only people who could do this was politicians. So the next thing we know, we are being told we have to vote for MEP's. None of the people in Europe were asked if we wanted to, with a vote on the subject.
    Well thats not true is it?

    Many governments gave their respective countries referendums on various european treaties , whilst many others like your didnt.

    After that it was like Topsy, it just grew and grew until it's become a non reversible institution that is impossible to leave.
    Why is it impossible to leave?

    You are apparently leaving in less than 7 weeks time.

    If you dont , it is your own politicians fault , not anyone elses.

    You cant expect the eu or the big wide world to cave into your demands and british exceptionalism just because you have decided to leave the eu. Nothing is stopping you leaving , that doesnt mean the scots irish or europeans have to go along with your demands.
    We've still got the arrogance going on now with politicians saying that the people didn't know what they were voting for so we are magnanimously going to give them another vote so they can get it right this time.
    Some politicians are indeed saying this , but at present it isnt a concrete policy nor is it likely to be enacted anytime soon.
    And all the time, while our politicians are running around like headless chickens
    They are , because

    1. they cant agree on the way forward

    2. never had a brexit plan from day one.
    that lot in Europe are just sitting back, rubbing their hands and saying "We just have to wait and they'll do whatever we want."
    possibly but what do you expect them to do?

    Feel sorry for you and cave into your demands?

    The biggest problem brexiters have is your own parliament, until you recognise this and deal with it by voting in a eurosceptic party to enact brexit , you will never leave the eu.

    Maybe if you had listened to people who said while its easy to leave , its difficult to get what you want outside , you wouldnt be in this mess.

    Instead , it was too easy to believe in unicorns and fairy tales , potentially the easiest free trade deal in history and all the other cac on the side of a bus.

    I would be turning my anger on those who over promised and underdelivered , and the mother of all democracies that cant enact a simple referendum result because they are scared of the consequences..
    "Pour l’Angleterre … il n’y a pas d’alliance qui tienne, ni de traité qui vaille, ni la vérité qui compte." Charles De Gaulle

    Alba gu brath An rud is fhiach a ghabhail, 's fhiach e iarraidh

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