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Thread: What will be the immediate benefits to the ‘common’ people come the end of March?

  1. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rei View Post
    A second referendum is nonsense imo. The only signal it will send to the people is that the establishment will have them vote until they get the result they want. Even though I personally think Brexit is the most idiotic idea of the last 50 years, another referendum is probably worse.

    The reason is that the bigger part of the people (imo) didn't really vote against the EU, they voted against their own government. It's a contradiction in itself, but Brexit is rather contradictory.
    Yes you are right. In fact, statistically, a refenerdum result is almost always against the establishment. it is ridiculous, isn't it!

    However, other than following the most sensible Ken Clark by simply revoking article 50 to give us all the time we need to sort things out, there is really no other solution: Referendum or revoke article 50.

    I would by far prefer Ken clark's soluton, but he himself said it is unlikely to hve much of a following.

  2. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by boggart View Post
    So you want another vote because we supposedly now know more (all I think we know is that the prevarication and obfuscation by politicians has created a FUBAR situation - I think that we can all agree on that).[
    Well we all know that the irish problem can only be solved by remaining in the EU (or remaining in all but name but with no say in the running of the EU).

    So, whichever way we turn, we are stuck with the Irish problem and that will not go away.
    But what happens if we do stay and then when the EU works towards closer union and a European identity (whatever that form might be!), do we then have another vote because we know more about the EU's direction? Maybe you are more than happy becoming part of a federal state with Westminster effectively being a council chamber of the EU parliament, but I'd prefer things not to go that way
    I don't think it will come to that. In any case, inside the EU, we have our say. Outside we do not. Indeed we as EU citizens would have a vote in such matters.

    Do you really theink Westminster, at present is doing good job? I don't! In fact, there is not much democrcy there. We are denied a public vote. MPs are denied a free vote. Votes are even reportedly being "bought". Dubious tactics are being used to threaten MPs and winding down the clock, etc... It is more like a dictatorship at the moment. When Brexiters complain about "unelected beurocrts" govenrning is, this is peanuts compared with Mrs May who was not elected by us either.

    BTW, I have voted Conservative all my life, but feel very let down now.

  3. #233
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    Just because Westminster is atrocious at the moment, doesn't mean that we should bin it and jump into bed with Brussels/Strasbourg. I look at it along football lines. Just because a player has a foreign name, too many people consider them to be better than home grown players. Sure some are, but the majority really aren't.

    One of my big problems is that a strong democracy needs a strong opposition (and yes, currently that is devoid at Westminster, on both counts). But who is the opposition in the EU parliament? Or more importantly who offers any opposition to the EU legislative? And one thing no one has ever given a proper answer to, is why, at the very least, if we vote at EU elections (well about 35% of us that are eligible do in this country) why can't the party which polled the most votes appoint the commissioner for the UK?

    I vote differently for local, national and EU elections.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

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  5. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnda View Post
    Well we all know that the irish problem can only be solved by remaining in the EU (or remaining in all but name but with no say in the running of the EU).

    So, whichever way we turn, we are stuck with the Irish problem and that will not go away.


    I don't think it will come to that. In any case, inside the EU, we have our say. Outside we do not. Indeed we as EU citizens would have a vote in such matters.

    Do you really theink Westminster, at present is doing good job? I don't! In fact, there is not much democrcy there. We are denied a public vote. MPs are denied a free vote. Votes are even reportedly being "bought". Dubious tactics are being used to threaten MPs and winding down the clock, etc... It is more like a dictatorship at the moment. When Brexiters complain about "unelected beurocrts" govenrning is, this is peanuts compared with Mrs May who was not elected by us either.

    BTW, I have voted Conservative all my life, but feel very let down now.
    I disagree.

    "The Irish problem was caused by murder and violence being allowed to speak louder than the will of parliament. Seemed to me there's an easy solution to that ..
    --
    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

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  7. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    The UK voted to join the Common Market not some cesspit of corruption. The only reason we joined the EU is because our PM at the time threatened our government.

    If all you ‘J’ohnny foreigners have only come here to do the EU’s bidding and explain the error of our ways you are wasting you’re time. This ‘BRady’ is not for turning. Oh how I wish Maggie was running Brexit, she would have had this done and dusted 13 months ago.

    Run along and tell a President Snow to prepare for battle. District 11 says **** You.
    The UK govern did sign the maastricht treaty and lisbon treaty, making you EU. You passport says EU. Even if you are not a fully members, for example you did not adopt the euro and you are not part of the schengen area, still you are EU, and not just a trader. Worry not end of march things will change.

  8. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinset View Post
    The UK govern did sign the maastricht treaty and lisbon treaty, making you EU. You passport says EU. Even if you are not a fully members, for example you did not adopt the euro and you are not part of the schengen area, still you are EU, and not just a trader. Worry not end of march things will change.
    And I didn't support either of those Governments but I had to abide by what they did. I think Brown was going to give us a referendum, but changed his mind.

  9. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnda View Post
    Well we all know that the irish problem can only be solved by remaining in the EU (or remaining in all but name but with no say in the running of the EU).

    So, whichever way we turn, we are stuck with the Irish problem and that will not go away.
    I think that you can separate goods and people.

    People seems to be easy, that is if the will is there. Irish people on this forum have not disagreed, that...... To get into Ireland, you either take a boat or plain to the north or south. To do that, then you need to show ID. You know who is on the island. agree that people can move freely between north and south without a hard border.

    Goods does present a different problem. I raised the fact that there are already some sort of check in place, due to differing excise rates, VAT and other tax rates. Surely it is not beyond the whit of man to use this as a basis of "things" and expand it. Effectively you could consider NI to be a FTZ with whatever rules you might care to impose to keep it in line with RoI but without being in the Customs Union/Single Market. I do think that it comes down to political will, and that seems to be in short supply from EU.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinset View Post
    The UK govern did sign the maastricht treaty and lisbon treaty, making you EU. You passport says EU. Even if you are not a fully members, for example you did not adopt the euro and you are not part of the schengen area, still you are EU, and not just a trader. Worry not end of march things will change.
    Some countries even asked their people before hand. I truly think that if we were asked then, then this current situation wouldn't be playing out.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

  10. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rei View Post
    A second referendum is nonsense imo. The only signal it will send to the people is that the establishment will have them vote until they get the result they want. Even though I personally think Brexit is the most idiotic idea of the last 50 years, another referendum is probably worse.

    The reason is that the bigger part of the people (imo) didn't really vote against the EU, they voted against their own government. It's a contradiction in itself, but Brexit is rather contradictory.
    A second referendum is lunacy as we could end in exactly the same situation in a years time with a vote to leave and Parliament not wishing to enact that vote - so instead of 2 years of uncertainty and recrimination we would have had 3.

  11. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Jefe View Post
    A second referendum is lunacy as we could end in exactly the same situation in a years time with a vote to leave and Parliament not wishing to enact that vote - so instead of 2 years of uncertainty and recrimination we would have had 3.
    True.

    The problem I have with a 2nd referendum, is that it doesn't solve, nor propose, anything if we voted to continue leaving. It is purely being suggested so that we can stay.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

  12. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by boggart View Post

    - - - Updated - - -
    Some countries even asked their people before hand. I truly think that if we were asked then, then this current situation wouldn't be playing out.
    Didn't they all have to vote again if they voted against it until they got the 'right' result?

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