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Thread: What proof do you have that a deity does not exist?

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    What proof do you have that a deity does not exist?

    You may have proof that Yahweh, Jesus/God or Allah do not exist. BUT: what proof do you have that no deity of any kind or description does not exist? Why do you Atheists think that "Deity" is only defined by the stories of Men? Can you not open your mind and consider the question outside your "dislike" of cultural and societal myths? I am Agnostic: I do not know if a deity of any kind exists or not. But I do not address the question of the existence or non-existence of deity by relying on ignorance and prejudice. Think about it...

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    Ah, an "is there a god" or even, "God", thread. Not had one of those for a long time.
    I'm a believer, I think everyone on here knows that. But I'm not 100% sure. I think anyone who says that they are, are either deluded, in denial or have more faith than anyone I know.
    I'm a firm believer that no one can prove that there is a God, nor disprove the same. One thing I do know is that scriptures say "Seek and ye shall find, knock and the door will be opened to you" which is an invitation to seek God for yourself.

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    we did this one.

    ok being more specific

    there's a chap who used to frequent these pages called Dirty Harry.

    In one of our chats he asked 'was not my insistence there was no god no less a leap of faith than his insistence there was'

    it took me a while to ponder that.

    and then I replied 'yeah, I guess it is'

    If believing there is a supreme being floats your boat and makes you happy, I'm happy for you.

    No, that isn't McDonald's "do you want fries with that have a nice day bol locks" I really mean it, if that belief does something for you , good for you go and enjoy it"

    For a raft of reasons I don't subscribe to that belief and I'm supremely relaxed about it.

    Have a nice day

    Seriously (see above)
    --
    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

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    It is not a matter of what one 'believes' but a matter of what one knows. One can hold a true belief or a false belief; the former just happens to correspond to reality while the latter does not. Secondly, beliefs are not 'chosen' according to their ability to benefit the believer. Holding a belief may be detrimental to ones contentment or happiness. In the case of Abrahamic Monotheism (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) the belief in the existence of deity results in the belief that one will punished in the afterlife for ones sins committed here in this realm. This belief, based on the core belief in the existence of deity, is not something that would make one content but, rather, fearful. Faith in a deity differs greatly from a belief in the existence of deity. Faith is a matter of trust in the intent of Deity whereas Belief in Deity is based on what one personally defines as "evidence". To be blunt, one cannot have faith in the actual existence of deity. However, it is not only Theists who conflate faith and belief. Atheists are guilty of the same error; They have Faith in the Scientific Method and, in contradiction to this method, believe that a lack of evidence in itself constitutes evidence. The reasoning is akin to arguing that because there is an absence of rainfall at this moment, at this time, there never was, is or will be rainfall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiral View Post
    It is not a matter of what one 'believes' but a matter of what one knows. One can hold a true belief or a false belief; the former just happens to correspond to reality while the latter does not. Secondly, beliefs are not 'chosen' according to their ability to benefit the believer. Holding a belief may be detrimental to ones contentment or happiness. In the case of Abrahamic Monotheism (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) the belief in the existence of deity results in the belief that one will punished in the afterlife for ones sins committed here in this realm. This belief, based on the core belief in the existence of deity, is not something that would make one content but, rather, fearful. Faith in a deity differs greatly from a belief in the existence of deity. Faith is a matter of trust in the intent of Deity whereas Belief in Deity is based on what one personally defines as "evidence". To be blunt, one cannot have faith in the actual existence of deity. However, it is not only Theists who conflate faith and belief. Atheists are guilty of the same error; They have Faith in the Scientific Method and, in contradiction to this method, believe that a lack of evidence in itself constitutes evidence. The reasoning is akin to arguing that because there is an absence of rainfall at this moment, at this time, there never was, is or will be rainfall.
    A couple of problems there

    for a start, how do you "know" something.

    do you "know" you can walk on a concrete floor and not fall right through it, for example.

    I ask because forty two years ago my then chemistry tutor, in a lecture on physical chemistry, as in, the physics behind chemistry, explained how Heisenberg's uncertainty principle allowed for the highly unlikely but numerically and physisically feasible scenario in which all the molecules in thst floor, and all the molecules in your legs, vibrated the exact same way and you fell right through the floor.

    so I know these things, but I do not believe it likely I will see it

    you might need new words for 'know and 'believe

    On your next point, I strenuously disagree. It is a matter of historical record for example that Peter The Great chose the Christian form of worship of the Abrahammic God for his people, and not the Islamic form of worship of what we are told is the SAME God because he knew he, and his people, were FAR too fond of booze to give it up. So the reality is many have been told what to believe based ENTIRELY on the benefits that belief has over another, and I am more than a little convinced that fringe benefits during life and after death are particularly good selling points....

    I think you should have quit while you were ahead, yiuve encouraged me to pick holes now, and with a trip to tge dentist coming up i need to find something to divert my mind ....
    --
    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

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    ...and never the twain shall meet. I would imagine that most on here know that I am a believer and it's true that I grew up in a believer family so the seeds were sown from birth. To some that might prove conditioning but I know the exact moment that I knew there is a God. I was 21 and doing the washing up and it hit me like a bolt. I have never wavered since. I can't explain it. All I know is that I wanted the truth and asked fervently for it and in that moment I had absolutely no doubt at all.

    Does that make me fearful? Absolutely not. The knowledge that Jesus' Resurrection will be our route to eternal life, that our Father in Heaven is a loving Father who more than understands our failings and whose whole aim is that we should return to him via acceptance of His existence and demands buoys me up to meet the challenges in this life to the best of my ability.

    For those who cannot/will not take the chance of asking in all humility this very fundamental question as to our existence I cannot explain. Of course the knowledge that there is a God is only the beginning because from then on life changes. No longer can you safely accept secular values with an easy heart. It matters too much knowing that one day you will need to answer for your actions. I believe that reluctance to accept the existence of Deity for so many is the fear of the life change that would necessarily follow. There is no middle path. Is it worth it? Oh yes.
    ...till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me, xx

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    The whole point of a religion as I understand is to have faith. If someone could provide proof that God existed then people wouldn't need faith to obey his commands as per the Bible. Everybody, including ourselves, would be acting out of fear, not our nature and inclination to be 'good ' or 'evil.' The whole idea of spreading the gospel and preaching is to find people who willingly obey God's commands, not doing so out of fear of reprisals.

    Incidentally and to avoid misunderstandings, I do not follow any religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnofgwent View Post
    A couple of problems there

    for a start, how do you "know" something.

    do you "know" you can walk on a concrete floor and not fall right through it, for example.

    I ask because forty two years ago my then chemistry tutor, in a lecture on physical chemistry, as in, the physics behind chemistry, explained how Heisenberg's uncertainty principle allowed for the highly unlikely but numerically and physisically feasible scenario in which all the molecules in thst floor, and all the molecules in your legs, vibrated the exact same way and you fell right through the floor.

    so I know these things, but I do not believe it likely I will see it

    you might need new words for 'know and 'believe

    On your next point, I strenuously disagree. It is a matter of historical record for example that Peter The Great chose the Christian form of worship of the Abrahammic God for his people, and not the Islamic form of worship of what we are told is the SAME God because he knew he, and his people, were FAR too fond of booze to give it up. So the reality is many have been told what to believe based ENTIRELY on the benefits that belief has over another, and I am more than a little convinced that fringe benefits during life and after death are particularly good selling points....

    I think you should have quit while you were ahead, yiuve encouraged me to pick holes now, and with a trip to tge dentist coming up i need to find something to divert my mind ....
    John: The question of what constitutes Knowledge and Belief is a subject for Epistemology. While I personally subscribe to the "Coherence Theory of Knowledge" (coupled with the Theory of the 'Intentionality' of Consciousness) as a new member here I thpight to go into detail would distract from my main argument concerning evidential proof, verification and induction in matters concerning Theology.

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    While I'm an atheist, I don't think one can prove conclusively that God doesn't exist but to me there's no credible evidence that God does exist either. The concept of God clearly exists, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. But then the concept of the Tooth Fairy and the Minotaur also exist!!
    I dahn do non-judgement'aw. ... and put ya blinkin' shirt on mate, wiwya!

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    The proof I have is that Deity's do exist . A Deity is a creator ,a God or Goddess and something you worship .

    Yep I married one of those 40 years ago ,so if Ive got one I guess there may be a few more knocking about for those who need to worship something .For me ,ones enough .

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