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Thread: Should Food Banks go...?

  1. #221
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    1. So 2.9% have sanctions imposed upon them. I'm sure that the situations most of these 2.9% find themselves in is hardly so difficult that they can't meet the conditions set.

    2. Sanctions surely are the failure of the claimant, not government. If 97.1% can manage it, then I suggest the system works pretty well.

    3. I didn't find the case of Stephen Smith shocking. Please stop using such emotive language to try and continue this vendetta against DWP. The judge said it was glaringly obvious that the decision in his case was wrong, but tell me, why did he fail the work capability test? Yup, you have no idea do you? There are two sides to every story, and while a picture may paint a thousand words, it is better to get the other side too. He said to a newspaper "I could only make it to the kitchen to make food once a day. I had no muscles in the back of my leg, which meant I couldn’t stand up at all and had to lean or sit down all the time, but they were telling me I was fit for work."

    I suspect that that is quite an important part of the decision making. Does that preclude you from working? The fact that you cannot walk and have to lean or sit down all the time? Many people do desk jobs. You see, if I had to make a guess, he filled in a form somewhat incorrectly, and certainly not face to face with a DWP assessor. It may well be glaringly obvious that he is not fit for work, but do you think that everyone has a face to face meeting? I filled in a PIP form and had no meeting. So fill it in without giving the full extent of your illnesses, and you might not get the ruling you want.

    So you see, you prattle about how evil the DWP are, yet you have absolutely no idea of the full facts nor how Mr Smith filled out his forms. You haven't even considered that the blame for this might be down to the way he filled out his forms.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

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  3. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by boggart View Post
    1. So 2.9% have sanctions imposed upon them. I'm sure that the situations most of these 2.9% find themselves in is hardly so difficult that they can't meet the conditions set.
    People in the work ESA Work Related Activity group are being targeted for sanctions and that is scandalous and also causing deaths.

    There is also no evidence that benefit sanctions work, (Governments own research.)

    I suggest that if you can you read it all.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/p...en/955/955.pdf

    12. The Government should be commended for its commitment to improvingemployment outcomes for disabled people and those with health conditions. But itpresented no evidence that conditionality and sanctions are helping achieve this. Weare not convinced by the Government’s argument that exempting disabled claimantsfrom conditionality would be doing them a “great disservice”. Conditionalityand sanctions neither work for disabled claimants, nor further the Government’sobjectives. We are convinced of the urgent need for change. (Paragraph 62)13. We recommend that the Department immediately exempt the following groups fromconditionality and sanctions:• any claimant assessed by a Work Capability Assessment (WCA) to have limitedcapability for work;• claimants not found to have limited capability for work as a result of a WCA, butwho have an impairment or health condition, including mental health, and whopresent a valid Fit Note stating that they are unable to work; where a valid Fit Notecan be issued by a health or social care professional and should be presumed tocontinue for a set period unless there is good reason to think that someone’s healthhas improved;• Universal Credit claimants awaiting a Work Capability Assessment who present avalid Fit Note stating that they are unable to work (as above).We further recommend that the Government bring together experts and third sector

  4. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by lankou View Post
    People in the work ESA Work Related Activity group are being targeted for sanctions and that is scandalous and also causing deaths.
    People have to be assessed, even if it is done with care and respect to that person, it still can cause a great deal of anxiety.
    Those deaths are indirect, of course. It is depression and mental illness that causes people to take their own lives.
    Many people in high pressure jobs are at similar risk.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sling-him.html
    Food banks are no help to these people. They don't starve to death. Their minds take them to their own deaths. It's horrible for their families.

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  6. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    People have to be assessed,
    I agree but not using the fatally flawed system (all to often fatal) sham system that was thoroughly discredited decades ago that the DWP uses.
    (I have also edited my last to add a reference.)

  7. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by lankou View Post
    I agree but not using the fatally flawed system (all to often falal) sham system that was thoroughly discredited decades ago that the DWP uses.
    (I have also edited my last to add a reference.)
    And taken 5 words of mine out of context. How Lankouesque is that?

  8. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    And taken 5 words of mine out of context. How Lankouesque is that?
    I was only commenting on those, they are the important ones.

  9. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by lankou View Post
    I agree but not using the fatally flawed system (all to often falal) sham system that was thoroughly discredited decades ago that the DWP uses.
    (I have also edited my last to add a reference.)
    Petty your not reading this Lankou, because we agree on something. the system is definitely flawed. There are hundreds of thousands of claimants who get disability allowance that shouldn't. I know of a woman around the corner who takes walking sticks with her, when in reality she can run around like a ten year old. People who make false claims should be treated as criminals

  10. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    People have to be assessed, even if it is done with care and respect to that person, it still can cause a great deal of anxiety.
    Those deaths are indirect, of course. It is depression and mental illness that causes people to take their own lives.

    They need to be assessed properly, which they are not, they are not being treated with care or respect.
    Far too many are wrongly being found "fit for work," The appeals system is now very lengthy because the DWP has no time limit on mandatory consideration before a claimant can go to the tribunals service.
    The numbers of those "found fit work" and dying before an appeal date is scandalous. (Referenced by me recently after the DWP let the data slip at DWP questions.)
    The numbers being awarded benefit posthumously as a result is scandalous.
    Latest victim, sorry for using a newspaper reference:-

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...fter-his-death

  11. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    People have to be assessed, even if it is done with care and respect to that person, it still can cause a great deal of anxiety.
    Those deaths are indirect, of course. It is depression and mental illness that causes people to take their own lives.
    Many people in high pressure jobs are at similar risk.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sling-him.html
    Food banks are no help to these people. They don't starve to death. Their minds take them to their own deaths. It's horrible for their families.
    This is very true. Unfortunately I had a cousin who shot himself. No one is quite sure why. He had some pressure meeting some deadlines, but nothing you would have thought be too bad. He did lose his wife to cancer some years before, maybe that was it. He had a huge circle of friends and family that he hid his problems from.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

  12. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by lankou View Post
    They need to be assessed properly, which they are not, they are not being treated with care or respect.
    Far too many are wrongly being found "fit for work," The appeals system is now very lengthy because the DWP has no time limit on mandatory consideration before a claimant can go to the tribunals service.
    The numbers of those "found fit work" and dying before an appeal date is scandalous. (Referenced by me recently after the DWP let the data slip at DWP questions.)
    The numbers being awarded benefit posthumously as a result is scandalous.
    Latest victim, sorry for using a newspaper reference:-

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...fter-his-death
    Aahh, I thought you meant the opposite. I believe far to many people are being found not fit for work, and thus costing the tax payer a fortune. There are very few people who couldn't sit at a desk or a call centre. My brother in law has been scrounging incapacity benefit for about 25 years. He claims that his bad back stops him from sitting for any length of time, yet he is happy to sit by a riverbank fishing for hours on end.

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