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Thread: Blocking Brexit could cause far-right surge - Grayling

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperduck Quack Quack View Post
    The liberals would have youth on their side. Be careful what you ask for!
    Snowflakes? Girls with pink hair? Owen Jones?
    those princes have accomplished most who paid little heed to keeping their promises, but who knew how to manipulate the minds of men craftily.

    Machiavelli, The Prince

  2. #22
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    I think that there is a real danger of millions of people being wholly disenfranchised with the political circus that we have known for so long. Can a new party emerge that isn't pathetically nationalistic and riven by asinine in fighting? Possibly. Would they need to be able to offer long term viability or just for one term? Would they be able to beat FPTP and be a force to be reckoned with?

    Do we actually care any more, as it is plain to see that the political classes have forgotten that they work for us, and it is not up to them to dictate to us.

    But there is of course a danger in all this, that those voting Remain seem largely to be over looking in their desire to see Brexit sunk (which I think will happen) - this includes those living outside of UK. If Parliament/EU does this now, what about the future? Those who think that there isn't a lack of democracy and accountability in the EU might one day get an awfully nasty shock. EU citizens might well look at the circus at Westminster and the clowns that are performing and shake their heads, but they should really take heed of what is going on here and be somewhat concerned.
    In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by morayloon View Post
    Over 16 million voted to Remain. The result was very close. Farage said before the Referendum that if Leave was defeated by 2% that would not be the end of the story. Why then is it so wrong for the Remainers to seek a re-run given the people had no idea what they were voting for. There was no details, nothing. As for violence. The Right rose in the 1930s and were firmly put in their place. I reckon if they try the same level of thuggery they will, again, be defeated.
    Then there is the fact that Scotland voted by a massive amount to Remain. Have we rallied the troops and begun a revolution because we are being forced out against our will? No! That little fact will be kept in store for Indyref 2. Our decision was ignored and our government disrespected. That will not be forgotten.
    mainly because it's a bloody lie that we didn't know What we were voting for. FFS how many more times must we point out Cameron and his arch remainiacs spelled out EXACTLY what he would have to.do if we voted leave, then ran away like the piece of dog shyte he is when it dawned on him we'd taken him at his word...

    APPARENTLY the shyteheads in Cardiff Bay on the remain side are up in arms because May has finally said what the tory leader in the bay has said for months, that if renain overturn a 52 to 48 vote, we shoukd get a chsnce to overturn a 50.22 to 49.88 vote, especially since that was a much loeer turnout and few admire the cack hsnded shambles the labour fiefdom west of offas dyke has become.
    --
    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

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    If Theresa May's deal if heavily defeated tomorrow, which I hope it is, then Wednesday will be a sort of 'Ground Zero' for British politics. If the defeat is at the level predicted, it's difficult to see how the government could carry on. Everything will be up in the air, including Brexit. They're talking about Theresa May going for a second or third vote on amended deals. That seems ridiculous. If Parliament can have 2 or 3 votes on the deal, why can't the electorate have another vote on whether or not we still want to leave the EU ?
    29,089,259 people did not say LEAVE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperduck Quack Quack View Post
    If Theresa May's deal if heavily defeated tomorrow, which I hope it is, then Wednesday will be a sort of 'Ground Zero' for British politics. If the defeat is at the level predicted, it's difficult to see how the government could carry on. Everything will be up in the air, including Brexit. They're talking about Theresa May going for a second or third vote on amended deals. That seems ridiculous. If Parliament can have 2 or 3 votes on the deal, why can't the electorate have another vote on whether or not we still want to leave the EU ?
    Ground zero is what is happening to the concept of democracy whichever way the vote goes,there are people like Bliar who I once only despised,his role in all this has taken that much further,people like major I was ambivalent toward.....they join Bliar in my book described in words I cannot use on this forum.
    The new parliamentary democracy,it's not the will of the people that counts but the will of 650......will come back to haunt them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boggart View Post
    I think that there is a real danger of millions of people being wholly disenfranchised with the political circus that we have known for so long. Can a new party emerge that isn't pathetically nationalistic and riven by asinine in fighting? Possibly. Would they need to be able to offer long term viability or just for one term? Would they be able to beat FPTP and be a force to be reckoned with?

    Do we actually care any more, as it is plain to see that the political classes have forgotten that they work for us, and it is not up to them to dictate to us.

    But there is of course a danger in all this, that those voting Remain seem largely to be over looking in their desire to see Brexit sunk (which I think will happen) - this includes those living outside of UK. If Parliament/EU does this now, what about the future? Those who think that there isn't a lack of democracy and accountability in the EU might one day get an awfully nasty shock. EU citizens might well look at the circus at Westminster and the clowns that are performing and shake their heads, but they should really take heed of what is going on here and be somewhat concerned.
    To that in bold you really have hit the nail on the head,though I think it's been a long long time since any recognised they actually should work for us.
    The new parliamentary democracy,it's not the will of the people that counts but the will of 650......will come back to haunt them.

  9. #27
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    We are crossing once again to Eye-Witness News, Palm Beach, for an American perspective on Britain...


    Good morning, America, how are ya?


    This is your favourite son Chad Hanging with another three hours of news you can use. Things are really hotting up across the jolly old pond. So let's go live to Engerlalaland and our special correspondent Brit Limey.


    Good morning, Chad. I'm standing in front of the world-famous Nelson Mandela's Column, in Tahrir Square, London, where the President of Engerlalaland Call me Thezza, is going on a walkabout to meet the public.


    One of the remarkable things about Engerlalaland , Chad, is that none of the main party leaders really wants to meet the people in case they are asked a question on Brexit, and none of them knows the answer except some guy called Nigel Garage, who seems to spend most of his time in the pub - he’s actually know by a number of other names, but I can’t say them over the airwaves!


    Who's this Garage guy Brit, and what are his policies?


    He wants an independent Britain, an end to mass immigration, smaller government, lower taxes, a pint of Spitfire, a large Glennmiller chaser and one for yourself.


    So he's like a Yew Kay version of the leader of the Boston Tea Party?


    You could say that, Chad, only Garage has never drunk tea in his life. He prefers adult beverages, like good old English bitter ale, gin and tonic, and red wine. He hates the Nanny State and admires Winston Churchill.


    He's a conservative, then?


    I guess so, Chad, or at least he would be in the U.S. Over here he's the leader of Ukip.


    What's Yew Kip?


    The Yew Kay Independence Party, Chad. They want to live in an independent country.


    Are they the outfit who lost that referendum last year?


    No, that was the Scotch Nationalists, from Scotlandland.


    What's the difference?


    Ukip want to take the Yew Kay out of Europe. The Scotch Nuts, as they're known here, want to stay in Europe but become independent of Engerlalaland


    I thought the Scotch people voted against that.


    They did, Chad, by 55 per cent to 45 per cent.


    Heck, if any candidate for U.S. president got 55 per cent of the vote we'd be calling it a landslide.


    You're right, Chad. But the Scotch Nuts just ignored the result and carried on as if nothing had happened.


    So they still want their own Parliament?


    They've already got that, Chad. And their own health service, education system, legal system and the power to raise or lower their own taxes.


    So what's the problem?


    The President of Scotlandland, Nicholas Surgeon, wants to run Engerlalaland, too.
    She took over from Alice Salmon after they lost the referendum.
    Salmon seemed to have vanished off the face of the Earth, but appeared briefly in court. Something to do with a couple of skirts, of course they are called something else in Scotlandland?


    I take it Surgeon's not a conservative?


    She makes Hillary Clinton look like Margaret Thatcher, but without the sense of humour.


    So why is this Nicholas Surgeon standing as President of Engerlalaland ?


    She isn't.


    I thought you said she wanted to run Engerlalaland


    She does, Chad, but she's not a candidate for the next erection. She's not even standing in Scotlandland.


    How's that gonna work, then?


    Well, it looks as if the Scotch Nuts are going to wipe out Labor in Scotlandland. They could have as many as 50 congressmen in the House of Lords.


    Is that enough to form a government?


    No, Chad. The Scotch Nuts probably won't get more than five per cent of the total vote in the Yew Kay, but they will hold the balance of power.


    Call Me Thezza got into bed with the Irelandland party & introduced gay marriage, failed to cut immigration as promised and trashed her traditional supporters as fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists


    How come?


    Because neither Labor nor the Conservatives will have enough congressmen in Engerlalaland land to form a government, either.


    Why not?


    Labor have always needed their Scotch congressmen to win in Engerlalaland And millions of Conservative voters in Engerlalaland have deserted to Yew Kip.


    How did that happen?


    But if it means Engerlalalandends up with a Left-wing Labor President, why doesn't Thezza sue for peace with Garage? Maybe over a pint of foaming English bitter stout ale.


    Ain't gonna happen, Chad. They hate each other.


    So what next?


    Surgeon says she would support Labor in Engerlalaland and install the Labor leader Corbynista Putin as President, even if he loses.


    Run that by me again, Brit. So they wipe out Labor in Scotland but support Labor in England?


    That's right, Chad.


    So who becomes President of Engerlalaland will be determined by a handful of people in Scotlandland? And the guy who actually loses the election is gonna be declared the winner?


    Correct.


    But that's like letting a few people in Florida decide who becomes President of the U.S.A.


    Best not to go there, Chad.


    So what does this Nicholas Surgeon want to do when she gets to run Engerlalaland too?


    She wants to raise taxes in Engerlalaland and give the money to people who vote for her in Scotlandland.


    And the English are gonna put up with this?


    I guess so, Chad. They already give an extra three thousand dollars a head to everyone in Scotlandland. And Engerlalaland sends 15 billion dollars a year in foreign aid to Third World dictators and rich countries like India, even though Engerlalaland is two trillion dollars in debt.


    I still don't understand how congressmen from Scotlandland can impose their will on Engerlalaland and when they've already got their own government.


    Like with most things, former President Tony Blair is to blame. He promised the Scotch their own government but still needed their votes to run Engerlalaland andland. It's called the Heart of Midlothian Question.


    What else does Surgeon want to do?


    Get rid of Britain's Trident nuclear deterrent.


    At a time when the Ruskies are on the march, she'd leave the Yew Kay undefended?


    That's a big Ten-Four, Chad.


    So the Commies could just stroll in and take over?


    In Scotlandland, most people wouldn't really notice much difference, they say.


    And Corbynista Putin is happy to go along with all this, like a puppet on a string?


    He pretends not, but when push comes to shove he'll agree to this blackmail if it means he becomes President of Englandland.


    So the conservative majority in Englandland will end up with a Marxist Socialist President who lost the election , being supported by the socialist President of Scotlandland who didn't even stand in the election?


    In the same way a rope supports a man on the gallows, Chad.


    And they have the nerve to criticise the way we run our elections? Holy cock-a-leekie!


    Makes yer think eh.?

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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnofgwent View Post
    mainly because it's a bloody lie that we didn't know What we were voting for. FFS how many more times must we point out Cameron and his arch remainiacs spelled out EXACTLY what he would have to.do if we voted leave, then ran away like the piece of dog shyte he is when it dawned on him we'd taken him at his word
    Cameron made many utterances on Brexit BUT, and this is the point, your side denigrated him, shouting about 'project fear' at every turn. So, now what you as a leaver are saying is that we should have listened to Cameron because he was some sort of visionary? Your side made it all sound great without providing any detail. What about that bus? The nhs, we were told, would benefit massively. That was pulled pretty quickly.

    APPARENTLY the shyteheads in Cardiff Bay on the remain side are up in arms because May has finally said what the tory leader in the bay has said for months, that if renain overturn a 52 to 48 vote, we shoukd get a chsnce to overturn a 50.22 to 49.88 vote, especially since that was a much loeer turnout and few admire the cack hsnded shambles the labour fiefdom west of offas dyke has become.
    And we should be recompensed for the failure to act on the 1979 result!
    Over 63% voted in 2011 for law making powers. There was a turnout of 35.6 turn-out and that is the main thing - the vast majority couldn't care. If there was a groundswell of feeling against the furthering of devolution surely those people would have turned out in droves.

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