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Thread: Knife debate: Street, McGovern, Blakeley, Halligan, Campbell

  1. #21
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    It's OK. Drug dealers can kill each other on our streets and just walk away from the courts. Claim it is self defence.
    Note that both victim and accused were black drug dealers.
    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/...-murder-trial/
    While things like this happen and we can't get a conviction, nothing will change. They act with impunity, and I mean that quite literally.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumzed View Post
    I see the self-reinforcing, self-congratulatory attitudes emerging again in the above discussions and the deprecating language used, like "snowflake" being used to anyone who may have opposing views. I am particularly disappointed that you would use such terms Major!

    I agree that "Stop and Search" is an effective deterrent to knife carrying; it was initially intended primarily for finding drugs when it was criticised for targetting primarily afro-caribbeans on the basis that they were statistically shown to be the most identifiable groups carrying drugs. The argument against this was that it was prejudicial and it certainly annoyed the majority of the ethnic group, who don't do drugs, who found they were being stopped and searched quite frequently. I would think that complaints would be much less for introduction of such measures now (regarding carrying knives) because a majority would appreciate the benefits.

    A friend of mine was in the Met police (now retired) and I remember attending a barbecue at his house also attended by many of his colleagues (this was about 15 years ago). I think some of you would be fairly appalled to hear their talk and general banter about what they thought and how they acted in dealing with "blacks" (more deprecating words were often used). Now there is some excuse as they were operating in a world were they would tend to see more of the worst in people, but they were undoubtedly hugely prejudiced as a result and had no ability to see how this would viewed if their worlds were reversed. Having said this, I know that some contributers here would think this is just fine!

    A couple of stories which they thought hilarious was of holding a bloke by his feet from a motorway bridge (at night) to get information and another where they pretended to some bloke they had in the back of a police vehicle that they were taking him somewhere remote by making it obvious they were not taking him to the local nick where they said they were going. Now this may be considered fair game by many (even if illegal) if these guys were bad people (I expect they probably were) but it builds up a pattern within the force of what they consider acceptable practices. And it also builds up a pattern amongst many ethnic minorities that the police are their enemies. Having played cricket in a team of largely West Indian background for many years, I have some sympathy. I should say all the guys I played cricket with were great blokes and very law abiding (Oh, and also very good at cricket!).
    Well, here's the thing.

    The BBC News can tell you the street where the most knife crime in London is, and tell you this is entirely down to drug SELLING - not drug TAKING. The SELLERS use various young - and not terribly white, to look at the CCTV - men to go and stick each other to maintain a turf war over the "right" to sell their ares on particular streets.

    But plod can't drive some sort of armored car down there firing trear gas to round up the scum

    Something's gone wrong somewhere

    I saw a first myself today, at 07:15 a not terribly white male was sitting at a very strange angle in the bus shelter at the junction of my street and the main road, having all sorts of trouble getting the bong he had between this legs to do him the honour of getting him stoned off his face.....

    ***k me they'e openly smoking bloody bongs in the bloody street in what amounted in this Dickensian climate to broad daylight now ...
    --
    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumzed View Post
    I see the self-reinforcing, self-congratulatory attitudes emerging again in the above discussions and the deprecating language used, like "snowflake" being used to anyone who may have opposing views. I am particularly disappointed that you would use such terms Major!
    I am disappointed that you are disappointed. It seems to me to be a slightly disparaging but remarkably appropriate word to describe white liberals with a very delicate outlook on the reality of life. That minority group who are too sensitive to call a spade a bloody shovel and seem to feel that they have some sort of right to be protected from being offended by people who hold a different and more robust view of life.

  4. #24
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    Wow, being offended, really? I see a huge issue involving black gang members killing each other and selling drugs quite openly with little chance of the depleted police force preventing them.

    So so either we, as a society shrug our shoulders and let them kill each other, or we proscribe gangs and make membership an incarcerable offence. Which would be acceptable to our political masters? Which would be acceptable to the majority of citizens who are affected by these hoodlums?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    It's OK. Drug dealers can kill each other on our streets and just walk away from the courts. Claim it is self defence.
    Note that both victim and accused were black drug dealers.
    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/...-murder-trial/
    While things like this happen and we can't get a conviction, nothing will change. They act with impunity, and I mean that quite literally.
    Well the problem is the jail system is in crisis and there is a reluctance to put people in custody because it costs both money and the system can't cope so they literally are getting away with murder and the fact so much is run by private companies doesn't help.

    In the best prime ministers thread I voted for supermac,remeber when he said (and I believe accurately ) Thatcher was selling off the family silver someone pointed out recently (can't remember who) this govt struggles so much because there is little control over so many sectors and they have nothing left to sell.
    Since 1945 how often was the legitimacy of a general election result questioned and how many received 52% of the vote?

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  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    I am disappointed that you are disappointed. It seems to me to be a slightly disparaging but remarkably appropriate word to describe white liberals with a very delicate outlook on the reality of life. That minority group who are too sensitive to call a spade a bloody shovel and seem to feel that they have some sort of right to be protected from being offended by people who hold a different and more robust view of life.
    I am sure there are those to whom the word applies but it is used so as to disparage others who have a reasoned argument. It is an attempt, albeit unconciously, to degrade an opposing argument by associating the person presenting it with an extreme position that they do not hold. It often gains applause from the more extreme that would support whatever point being made, but it is divisive and ultimately drives debate to a playground level. It is similar to the left referring to anyone who supports the views that are not somewhere in the region of the current Labour party as a fascist. By the way I am not personally offended as I doubt that many here would see me in this light, but it irks me that intelligent people use such name calling.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnofgwent View Post
    Well, here's the thing.

    The BBC News can tell you the street where the most knife crime in London is, and tell you this is entirely down to drug SELLING - not drug TAKING. The SELLERS use various young - and not terribly white, to look at the CCTV - men to go and stick each other to maintain a turf war over the "right" to sell their ares on particular streets.

    But plod can't drive some sort of armored car down there firing trear gas to round up the scum

    Something's gone wrong somewhere

    I saw a first myself today, at 07:15 a not terribly white male was sitting at a very strange angle in the bus shelter at the junction of my street and the main road, having all sorts of trouble getting the bong he had between this legs to do him the honour of getting him stoned off his face.....

    ***k me they'e openly smoking bloody bongs in the bloody street in what amounted in this Dickensian climate to broad daylight now ...
    The knife thing started that way but now it has become the "thing" for young people who think they need a knife to be part of the world they live in and maybe some feel they need it for protection but I suspect that is an excuse as it can have exactly the opposite effect. Don't think I am a soft touch here BTW, I am a supporter of zero tolerance provided it is carried out fairly and, what is more, is seen and believed to be carried out fairly. As far as I am concerned they should have more severe sentences for those who break the law, especially if carrying a weapon. Of course the idea of using kids to distribute the stuff is trying to counter this, but I don't believe that they cannot find a way to get at the gang leaders if they had more resources and really threw the book at the real culprits when they catch them.

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