View Poll Results: Would you allow the families of those who left the UK to fight for IS to return?

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  • Yes

    2 14.29%
  • No

    11 78.57%
  • Don't Know

    1 7.14%
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Thread: Well would you allow them back?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leftylib View Post
    It is not as simple as that. They went to an evil regime that no longer exists. This means they are either roaming free, a perpetual danger to the world, or somebody else is lumbered with them when they are not their responsibility. We should not shirk ours. British nationals are our problem, not anyone else's.
    It is and it was.Move along.
    17,410,742 people said LEAVE!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeppityDawg View Post
    As I remember, weren't you the poster who claimed to have been someone else in the past, then had a forum meltdown about people not responding to your posts, then later called me a bully (among other things, after I had responded to one of your posts) and said you'd have nothing further to do with me. It was funny, but I ignored it and put it down to the time of month.

    Anyway that's all fine by me. You weren't specifically referred to in this discussion, as my exchange is with Javert. You've given your views, and as far as I can see, no one is really contesting what you have said on this occasion. I'm not really interested in your view.

    I don't consider myself intellectually "superior" to anyone on here, although there are posters (not you by the way) who clearly do, and they are almost exclusively middle class liberals. But if you want to get into an insult match, then carry on, but I am rather good at that part of debate (and have a list of infractions and bans to go with it), so be warned that I might say some things you don't like, and you have appeared, in the past at least, to be a little sensitive.

    As for your morals, that's great, I'm sure you really are a lovely guy. But I'm not talking about morals, I'm talking about practical realities. What I would suggest is that, if my views upset you that much, you take your own counsel and not respond to them. Not everyone is a liberal, and there is such a thing as free speech, even if you don't appear to like it when others have different views to you.
    I choose to respond to whomever I feel like responding to. That may sometimes include you.

    Yeah I chose to leave for a while after being privately asked if I was ok with people knowing I used to post here under a different username. So I publicly stated whom I used to be only to have this to be seen as a problem. Mixed and contradictory messages and all that, combined with not being allowed to identify myself. So yeah I thought I don't need this and left. It was not a meltdown at all but a principled departure. Any meltdown occurred a long time ago under my previous identity in response to bona fide bullying. Am pretty sure you were not involved in that.

    As for the lack of responses thing, there was a time when I returned after a time away with some posts and got no responses so had nothing to debate and felt frustrated and bored by that, commented on it, and left again. That was hardly a meltdown.

    But with varying lengths of absence I do decide to return from time to time. I see no good reason for you bringing any of this up though.

    I do not recall calling you a bully, so cannot comment. If I did I presumably had my reasons, even if misguided ones, but cannot recall.

    Anyway, I was not so much trying to insult you as call you out on what looked like your own arrogant disdain based upon false assumptions about the left. If you want to try and insult me that's your call, but debate is better when playing the ball and not the man. And yeah, I should try and remember that too.

    We are after all better than certain former members who exploited the Other Place

    And yeah, lots of people have different views to me, there wouldn't be any debate otherwise. But I naturally believe my views are correct as you do yours. And you yourself seem to have a measure of disdain for those you disagree with. Free speech works both ways. And incidentally, I and all of us on the left agree with free speech. You are free to speak as you like and express any opinion. We on the left though do not conflate free speech with hate speech and use the former to condone or justify the expression of the latter, as some on the Right do. Not accusing you of that, incidentally, just making the general point.
    Thatcherism is an evil dragon. Let's be Saint George

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepy View Post
    It is and it was.Move along.
    I am afraid it is not. British nationals are a British responsibility. Not anyone else's. If not ours, then whose?
    Thatcherism is an evil dragon. Let's be Saint George

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leftylib View Post
    I choose to respond to whomever I feel like responding to. That may sometimes include you.

    Yeah I chose to leave for a while after being privately asked if I was ok with people knowing I used to post here under a different username. So I publicly stated whom I used to be only to have this to be seen as a problem. Mixed and contradictory messages and all that, combined with not being allowed to identify myself. So yeah I thought I don't need this and left. It was not a meltdown at all but a principled departure. Any meltdown occurred a long time ago under my previous identity in response to bona fide bullying. Am pretty sure you were not involved in that.

    But after a long absence I decided to return from time to time. I see no good reason for you bringing this up though.

    I do not recall calling you a bully, so cannot comment. If I did I presumably had my reasons, even if misguided ones, but cannot recall.

    Anyway, I was not so much trying to insult you as call you out on what looked like your own arrogant disdain based upon false assumptions about the left. If you want to try and insult me that's your call, but debate is better when playing the ball and not the man. And yeah, I should try and remember that too.

    We are after all better than certain former members who exploited the Other Place

    And yeah, lots of people have different views to me, there wouldn't be any debate otherwise. But I naturally believe my views are correct as you do yours. And you yourself seem to have a measure of disdain for those you disagree with. Free speech works both ways. And incidentally, I and all of us on the left agree with free speech. You are free to speak as you like and express any opinion. We on the left though do not conflate free speech with hate speech and use the former to condone or justify the expression of the latter, as some on the Right do. Not accusing you of that, incidentally, just making the general point.
    Ok Leftylib, I'll take that post in the spirit (at least I think) it was intended. You seem to have an honesty which is not always common on this forum.

    I've been called all sorts of things on here, including (but not limited to) racist, Nazi, fascist and murderer. If I took all that to heart, I'd have gone somewhere else ages ago. Sometimes, emotions run high, and people say, or rather write, things that they might not ordinarily say in a face to face conversation. That's the internet for you. I may be a lot of things (blunt, rude, direct, awkward), but I am honest about what I say and believe. I'm much the same in real life. Even my wife tells me to shut the feck up sometimes . That doesn't make me right, it is simply my opinions, sometimes backed up with evidence, sometimes backed up with personal experience, but either way, it is just an opinion. What I will observe from your comments about conflating issues/meanings is that the things I have been called on here have never really been established with anything evidential (if I were really a racist I'm sure I would have permanently banned by now), they have just been used as pejorative insults in order to diminish an opposing point of view, something which you "on the left" are rather good at (that is not accusing you by the way)

    In any case, having re-read your posts, I don't really find anything to disagree with in them. My points are practical, based on seeing situations where the law/legal system is gamed by current or former members of organisations fighting or opposed to the state. That also includes sometimes seeing the results of their actions, and none of that is easy to forget. If it really were simple to bring them back, investigate them, decide whether they were dangerous/harmless, guilty or innocent, then deal with them accordingly, then that would be fine. But life is rarely that simple, and the amount of obstacles to that happening in reality are too many to list, not to mention going off topic to this thread, and too many do that.

    Anyway, you can take my posts as you find them, but you'll find that, if I really am the unpleasant person you think I am, then at least I'm consistent.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leftylib View Post
    I am afraid it is not. British nationals are a British responsibility. Not anyone else's. If not ours, then whose?
    They made their choice they all knew the rules,it is just you who doesn't,a word of honour is worth more than a thousand politicians word.
    17,410,742 people said LEAVE!

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeppityDawg View Post
    Ok Leftylib, I'll take that post in the spirit (at least I think) it was intended. You seem to have an honesty which is not always common on this forum.

    I've been called all sorts of things on here, including (but not limited to) racist, Nazi, fascist and murderer. If I took all that to heart, I'd have gone somewhere else ages ago. Sometimes, emotions run high, and people say, or rather write, things that they might not ordinarily say in a face to face conversation. That's the internet for you. I may be a lot of things (blunt, rude, direct, awkward), but I am honest about what I say and believe. I'm much the same in real life. Even my wife tells me to shut the feck up sometimes . That doesn't make me right, it is simply my opinions, sometimes backed up with evidence, sometimes backed up with personal experience, but either way, it is just an opinion. What I will observe from your comments about conflating issues/meanings is that the things I have been called on here have never really been established with anything evidential (if I were really a racist I'm sure I would have permanently banned by now), they have just been used as pejorative insults in order to diminish an opposing point of view, something which you "on the left" are rather good at (that is not accusing you by the way)

    In any case, having re-read your posts, I don't really find anything to disagree with in them. My points are practical, based on seeing situations where the law/legal system is gamed by current or former members of organisations fighting or opposed to the state. That also includes sometimes seeing the results of their actions, and none of that is easy to forget. If it really were simple to bring them back, investigate them, decide whether they were dangerous/harmless, guilty or innocent, then deal with them accordingly, then that would be fine. But life is rarely that simple, and the amount of obstacles to that happening in reality are too many to list, not to mention going off topic to this thread, and too many do that.

    Anyway, you can take my posts as you find them, but you'll find that, if I really am the unpleasant person you think I am, then at least I'm consistent.
    I do not regard you as a racist nor an unpleasant person. You are just very forthright in your views as am I. Which can lead to clashes and misunderstandings when our views are very different.

    I do acknowledge that some on the left are very fond of throwing around pejorative labels to diminish an opponent's argument. Over the years there on the Labour Party forum itself I have been labelled "transphobic", "homophobic", "far left", "ageist" , amongst others. And that's fellow lefties, lol.

    Hopefully I am not one who stoops to such tactics.

    Anyway, this is way off topic so let's end this here.
    Thatcherism is an evil dragon. Let's be Saint George

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeppityDawg View Post
    That's the internet for you. I may be a lot of things (blunt, rude, direct, awkward), but I am honest about what I say and believe.
    Oh bugger you're not are you? I was nominating you for the Nobel prize for diplomacy.......then found out there wasn't one
    Since 1945 how often was the legitimacy of a general election result questioned and how many received 52% of the vote?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by cromwell View Post
    Oh bugger you're not are you? I was nominating you for the Nobel prize for diplomacy.......then found out there wasn't one
    Shut up Ken Clarke.

  9. #69
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    I would not let them back, but the problem is how many are already back due to the British border being as porous as a string vest.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by lankou View Post
    I would not let them back, but the problem is how many are already back due to the British border being as porous as a string vest.
    This time last year the newspapers were saying 4-500 Isis fighters had returned to the UK . There appears to be no reporting on this threat to our security since . Lets hope this is because no more have returned .

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