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Thread: NHS at risk from American takeover group of lobbyists at the Tory conference.

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Jefe View Post
    What persuasion? - the private sector is superior to the NHS that is precisely why private health insurance is the number 1 'perk' demanded by British workers.
    I was referring to the issue about drug costs. The cost of medication is zero to the end user through the NHS and the NHS get much better deals on supply than do private companies in (say) the USA. The "perk" of private treatment is getting to see a specialist more quickly than would be available via the NHS, which is also important to companies who wish to have staff back quickly and in full health. It is unfortunately the case that the private healthcare systems make the NHS worse by being able to effectively jump queues and reward consultants more highly for enabling this. In the long term this also drives up costs. The "private" hospitals are often specialised and do not cater for the wide range of problems that a general hospital has to deal with (and this can be problematic if something goes wrong but is unsurprisingly not featured in their advertising literature). Apart from jumping queues, the private hospitals do not provide better medical care though the extra fees they get do sometimes provide a more superficially comfortable environment - a bit like business class travel vs economy.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Jefe View Post
    What persuasion? - the private sector is superior to the NHS that is precisely why private health insurance is the number 1 'perk' demanded by British workers.
    I cancelled my health insurance as the local NHS trust really is rather good. I see so many complaining about theirs, but I find mine great, even if CQC only rates it "good". Recently had a general and operation with both myself and my son, and didn't use private health insurance. It also has a very highly rated oncology department.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumzed View Post

    But, regarding the NHS, the organisation is massively underfunded
    Wrong. The NHS isn't underfunded, it is massively over used. The population has grown at a far greater rate than the NHS ever could, and the additional revenue gained from immigration isn't anywhere close to what is needed to keep up. Socialists will just tell us that the government need to pump endless amounts of money into the NHS pit, but socialists rarely understand economics. Strangely enough the country goes our of it's way to keep people alive for as long as they can, which of course costs the tax payer an enormous amount. Perhaps a more realistic and pragmatic approach is required. One thing I do know, is that throwing money at the problem won't sort it out.
    Keep Britain British, whoops, it's too late

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumzed View Post
    I was referring to the issue about drug costs. The cost of medication is zero to the end user through the NHS and the NHS get much better deals on supply than do private companies in (say) the USA. The "perk" of private treatment is getting to see a specialist more quickly than would be available via the NHS, which is also important to companies who wish to have staff back quickly and in full health. It is unfortunately the case that the private healthcare systems make the NHS worse by being able to effectively jump queues and reward consultants more highly for enabling this. In the long term this also drives up costs. The "private" hospitals are often specialised and do not cater for the wide range of problems that a general hospital has to deal with (and this can be problematic if something goes wrong but is unsurprisingly not featured in their advertising literature). Apart from jumping queues, the private hospitals do not provide better medical care though the extra fees they get do sometimes provide a more superficially comfortable environment - a bit like business class travel vs economy.
    I once paid to see a specialist, who confirmed I needed an operation. Because I couldn't afford to have the operation privately I had to have an NHS appointment to see the same specialist to have the same diagnosis. The private appointment to see him took a week, the NHS appointment took 3 months. In brief, the cost of the private appointment was a waist of money and delayed the operation.
    Keep Britain British, whoops, it's too late

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Know it View Post
    Wrong. The NHS isn't underfunded, it is massively over used. The population has grown at a far greater rate than the NHS ever could, and the additional revenue gained from immigration isn't anywhere close to what is needed to keep up. Socialists will just tell us that the government need to pump endless amounts of money into the NHS pit, but socialists rarely understand economics. Strangely enough the country goes our of it's way to keep people alive for as long as they can, which of course costs the tax payer an enormous amount. Perhaps a more realistic and pragmatic approach is required. One thing I do know, is that throwing money at the problem won't sort it out.
    I think most people's definition of "underfunded" means that it has not got sufficient money to meet its required obligations. Your definition is that this obligation excludes people who immigrate here and those who you consider non-essential, like old people. I'm surprised you don't extend this to sick people then the NHS could cost nothing at all! I will stick with my definition.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumzed View Post
    The "perk" of private treatment is getting to see a specialist more quickly than would be available via the NHS, which is also important to companies who wish to have staff back quickly and in full health. It is unfortunately the case that the private healthcare systems make the NHS worse by being able to effectively jump queues and reward consultants more highly for enabling this. In the long term this also drives up costs.

    No it doesnt - it saves the NHS a fortune. Every patient that goes private is relieving the NHS of the need to treat them

  7. #57
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    In the short term, yes - in the long term, no. It produces a two tier system where the market rate for treatment is set by what the wealthy will pay. It certainly rewards the private hospitals so they can attract staff from the NHS once they are trained at the taxpayers' expense and funds the profits of the healthcare companies. Effectively the private care system runs "on the back" of the NHS. They also don't tend to handle the difficult cases so the NHS gets the unbalanced residue of long term care, the elderly and the chronic problems. At present such the private health sector is needed because the NHS is in such a poor state with long waiting lists for some treatments, which is unacceptable and needs to be addressed.

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