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Thread: Brexit and the Northern Ireland border crossing

  1. #21
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    Don't you dare call Britons dishonourable.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conchúr View Post
    But it can only be business as usual until such times as rules diverge --- this is the point. Everything the Brexiteers say about 'oh we don't want a hard border with Ireland' is based on the presumption that everything will stay the way it is now. But this is not the point of Brexit is it? The point of Brexit is that the UK will diverge from EU regulation and therefore standards are going to change, classifications are going to change, tariffs are going to diverge. In that environment, having an open frictionless border is almost impossible without highly advanced technological solutions which may be years away from fruition. Businesses in the Republic will have to conform to EU standards, while business in Northern Ireland will have to conform to UK standards. Sure, on a practical level that wouldn't be a problem right now -- because the standards are the same -- but the standards aren't going to stay the same and therefore a potential legal minefield is being created which may ruin cross-border trade in Ireland. You simply cannot trade goods across a border freely and frictionlessly where either side of that border imposes different regulatory standards in the quality or classification of those goods.

    So -- if the UK does not agree to any form of arrangement which will alleviate the regulatory divergence between Northern Ireland and the Republic, and also just decides to walk away from the negotiations and 'let Mexico build the wall', then yes, Ireland may well be forced to harden the border to protect the integrity of its market. This is the EU's point and this is Ireland's point -- and while Brexit has evoked all sorts of patriotic nationalism and a sense that the UK's reclaiming some lost mythical sovereignty means it can do whatever it wants, the EU and the Irish are simply pointing out the real legal, economic and political problems on a practical level. The UK has committed to having no hard border, and knows well that a laissez-faire approach will more or less eventually lead to a hardening of the border, so it would be going against its own commitments by simply walking away and blaming the EU/Irish for taking the necessary steps to contain the damage.

    For the Irish people, it would be just yet another example of the British taking a s**t on Ireland and the Irish having to clean up the mess.
    Well that's a start - that gives rise to a number of possibilities, diverging standards could be an issue. "UK will diverge from EU regulation and therefore standards are going to change". But "having an open frictionless border is almost impossible without highly advanced technological solutions which may be years away from fruition" so it is presumably possibly that the divergence would have to be slow and would have to await these technological solutions. It is also possible that divergence will be quick and the border will harden in some way or that there is no divergence at all in which case its business as usual (and yes I understand that that no divergence would negate Brexit to a large extent, but that was not the question).

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepy View Post
    Don't you dare call Britons dishonourable.
    Oh for God's sake man calm down. I never called Britons dishonourable -- it was a throwaway comment about how a lot of Irish people would view the hypothetical situation of the UK just treating the Irish border as something that would just work itself out.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conchúr View Post
    Oh for God's sake man calm down. I never called Britons dishonourable -- it was a throwaway comment about how a lot of Irish people would view the hypothetical situation of the UK just treating the Irish border as something that would just work itself out.
    I have told you we are not expecting it to work itself out,we have worked it out.Politicians are the ones using it for their own showboating.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepy View Post
    I have told you we are not expecting it to work itself out,we have worked it out.Politicians are the ones using it for their own showboating.

    How have we worked it out?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conchúr View Post
    How have we worked it out?
    We have worked it out with systems that are already in place and work without a problem.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepy View Post
    We have worked it out with systems that are already in place and work without a problem.
    I'm sorry, I don't quite follow. The systems that are already in place exist within a context whereby both jurisdictions on the island of Ireland operate within a customs union and a single market. That will no longer be the case post-Brexit, and as time goes on the UK will drift away from EU regulation (or so I presume, otherwise that element of Brexit was completely pointless) ----- so relying on the system which is already in place is highly problematic because that current system doesn't have to take into account the challenges which arise with regulatory divergence in respect of cross-border trade.

  8. #28
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    Adding EU trade to the high-tech Destin8 system in Felixstowe could 'be achieved in a matter of minutes'
    Tax officials at HMRC monitor every single non-EU container ship using the system, working out the tariffs and duty owed. Intelligence gathering and data analysis helps identify 80,000 of the four million containers to be searched and monitored for any infringements.
    People who work in the freight industry are adamant that Felixstowe’s systems can be adapted for Ireland.
    They say no hard border would need to be built and trade can continue as before.
    And it will not cost billions of pounds nor take years because everything is digital.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepy View Post
    Adding EU trade to the high-tech Destin8 system in Felixstowe could 'be achieved in a matter of minutes'
    Tax officials at HMRC monitor every single non-EU container ship using the system, working out the tariffs and duty owed. Intelligence gathering and data analysis helps identify 80,000 of the four million containers to be searched and monitored for any infringements.
    People who work in the freight industry are adamant that Felixstowe’s systems can be adapted for Ireland.
    They say no hard border would need to be built and trade can continue as before.
    And it will not cost billions of pounds nor take years because everything is digital.
    Sounds great . . . .so how does it work for the Irish border?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conchúr View Post
    Sounds great . . . .so how does it work for the Irish border?
    In exactly the same way,they have already cleared customs before they even enter the UK.Everything is digitally tracked.I told you it is politicians making it all about politicians.Everything is already in place just push the buttons.
    17,410,742 people said LEAVE!

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