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Thread: Scientific Revisionism

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov View Post
    They are likely to succeed as well as men because of equal opportunity. Large firms have to meet quotas, and because most women are uninterested in science their chances are biased above what their chances would have been if it were a world where no one cared how many women work in science.

    Considering it is unusual for some woman to know more than all the men in a company and be described as best, the chances of that occurring twice in the next two posts of personal experience is very very unlikely (p1 X p2).

    But it is becoming a regular experience for me when simply trying to get some honesty on this subject. Oh and one other point is that a lot of early computer programming was done for the state and the state was PC back in the 60s. Now it is more private industry they don't have to care about how many women votes they get. That's the bottom line. It's rather hilarious, but women most likely do not want to become scientists themselves but want to vote for a party which represents them, i.e. makes them look all intelligent and scientific. a party which gives them equal pay, where that would mean doing difficult jobs and be board members and the like.
    I cannot speak for JoG, but my judgement was of the quality of work not on whether they know more than all of the men which is a straw man argument. These women were both specialists in RF design which is at the tough end of microelectronic design as well as requiring a good deal of physics and maths - not all of the other designers had such experience or interest but many had their own areas of expertise. The quality of work was also based on their ability and willingness to "complete" designs in terms of thorough simulation with complex software tools and provide full documentaion, and then assist with test development and evaluation of the finished product.

    Also, retro-fitting your statistics (p1*p2 etc.) is very poor science when just two people are responding to your baseless claims with personal experience. BTW, I had no "quotas" to fulfill; employment was based on very thorough interviewing and quality of previous experience and qualifications. And don't get me going on the value of a degree qualification (even in physics or electronic engineering) today, because from many Universities it is almost valueless as a predictor of ability - MSc is only slightly better. I did interview one candidate (who incidentally was a woman) who had a good degree (1st or 2.1, I don't remember) in electronic engineering who did not know Ohms Law! My interviews were very tough but this lady failed at a very early stage (quite embarassing really). I employed very few of those we interviewed. A-level results were often better indicators. But then it was also the case that there were "late developers". One chap (2.1) was marginal at interview and was not great for a few years but then suddenly "got it" and was one of the best digital designers in the company.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov View Post
    They are likely to succeed as well as men because of equal opportunity. Large firms have to meet quotas, and because most women are uninterested in science their chances are biased above what their chances would have been if it were a world where no one cared how many women work in science.

    Considering it is unusual for some woman to know more than all the men in a company and be described as best, the chances of that occurring twice in the next two posts of personal experience is very very unlikely (p1 X p2).

    But it is becoming a regular experience for me when simply trying to get some honesty on this subject. Oh and one other point is that a lot of early computer programming was done for the state and the state was PC back in the 60s. Now it is more private industry they don't have to care about how many women votes they get. That's the bottom line. It's rather hilarious, but women most likely do not want to become scientists themselves but want to vote for a party which represents them, i.e. makes them look all intelligent and scientific. a party which gives them equal pay, where that would mean doing difficult jobs and be board members and the like.
    NO, that won't wash either.

    RIGHT NOW I'm programming the conveyor belt assembly line machinery on a small automotive factory making parts for what little remains of the UK car building industry and several foreign manufacturers.

    Our lead project manager in the sales team, is a woman who has been in the job for 20 years

    The HR director is a woman, the legal director is a woman and the director in charge of logistics and supply is ... A woman.

    We may have lots of men dealing with the design, and the rufty rufty engineering.

    But we have chosen to give the key jobs of heading up the negotiations that matter to women.

    And quotas had eff all to.do with it because they were doing those jobs before any such bull shine hapoenned.

    AS I HAVE SAID on other threads I chose to work in an area of science to which women were attracted in larger numbers than other branches..

    And by the way, as I sit here waiting for my car to be MOT'd, two blokes looking to buy 38k cars are being shown round them by ... women. Just like the ones Lotus sent to the motor show in 83 ... women who, like my daughters know exactly how to tighten a cylinder head and rip out a half shaft.

    I'd leave that spade in the hole you're digging and climb out now if I were you...
    --
    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

  4. #33
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    for the record...

    if your frigates engine room is ablaze and your fire control system is offline the guy you want is six foot three and black as the ace of spades. If you need to hack a satellite downlink, you need another bloke of the same complexion who is a fundamentalist vegan. if you have a smoking hardware rack in meltdown and need it replaced you need a chap who is bent as a nine bob note and complains the more he drinks the more women look attractive to him and his husband is getting fed up of it, and if you want something fetched off the sea bed shallower than 140 metres you need the help of a rabid lesbian ...

    all these people are on my speed dial for the skills they have and I give not a sh1t where they stick their dangly bits or what colour they are. I hire partners in contracts on the basis of their ability to get the damn job done. And in 20 years of digging people out of cesspit hell, those people on my speed dial are the best at the job I've found. And we've all.made rather a lot from those skills....

    I'm sure others are equally as good. But I haven't met them.

    And believe me, the last project we were ALL assembled to get out the door isn't one I can readily talk about. But we wrapped it up in mid October, picked up a 30k completion bonus each and went out and had a HELL of a Halloween party ...
    --
    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumzed View Post
    I cannot speak for JoG, but my judgement was of the quality of work not on whether they know more than all of the men which is a straw man argument. These women were both specialists in RF design which is at the tough end of microelectronic design as well as requiring a good deal of physics and maths - not all of the other designers had such experience or interest but many had their own areas of expertise. The quality of work was also based on their ability and willingness to "complete" designs in terms of thorough simulation with complex software tools and provide full documentaion, and then assist with test development and evaluation of the finished product.

    Also, retro-fitting your statistics (p1*p2 etc.) is very poor science when just two people are responding to your baseless claims with personal experience. BTW, I had no "quotas" to fulfill; employment was based on very thorough interviewing and quality of previous experience and qualifications. And don't get me going on the value of a degree qualification (even in physics or electronic engineering) today, because from many Universities it is almost valueless as a predictor of ability - MSc is only slightly better. I did interview one candidate (who incidentally was a woman) who had a good degree (1st or 2.1, I don't remember) in electronic engineering who did not know Ohms Law! My interviews were very tough but this lady failed at a very early stage (quite embarassing really). I employed very few of those we interviewed. A-level results were often better indicators. But then it was also the case that there were "late developers". One chap (2.1) was marginal at interview and was not great for a few years but then suddenly "got it" and was one of the best digital designers in the company.
    In that case it appears more like a coincidence, because when I studied physics there were two girls and about 150 chaps doing it. The two girls wern't much good either, and one dropped out. The claim I make is far from baseless though. I was basing it on hard statistics published in a technical journal. I'm right in thinking two consecutive improbable events is far more improbable than just the one as well!

    Women are better at repetitive things. They are often used in electronics firms to do the wiring. They are good at following set procedures, so perhaps the job suited them. By the way, what RF circuits were they designing, just so it gives me an idea what you are on about?
    Toiler on the sea

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnofgwent View Post
    NO, that won't wash either.

    RIGHT NOW I'm programming the conveyor belt assembly line machinery on a small automotive factory making parts for what little remains of the UK car building industry and several foreign manufacturers.

    Our lead project manager in the sales team, is a woman who has been in the job for 20 years

    The HR director is a woman, the legal director is a woman and the director in charge of logistics and supply is ... A woman.

    We may have lots of men dealing with the design, and the rufty rufty engineering.

    But we have chosen to give the key jobs of heading up the negotiations that matter to women.

    And quotas had eff all to.do with it because they were doing those jobs before any such bull shine hapoenned.

    AS I HAVE SAID on other threads I chose to work in an area of science to which women were attracted in larger numbers than other branches..

    And by the way, as I sit here waiting for my car to be MOT'd, two blokes looking to buy 38k cars are being shown round them by ... women. Just like the ones Lotus sent to the motor show in 83 ... women who, like my daughters know exactly how to tighten a cylinder head and rip out a half shaft.

    I'd leave that spade in the hole you're digging and climb out now if I were you...
    I know, they get everywhere these days. They seem to like to become manageresses, which is a kind of people management type of management, rather than a technical manager, i.e. the one who has more clue than the rest, or equivalently, the bloke who gets asked the most questions because he's the one most think can help better than anyone else. It feels more like some soviet infiltration to me. First the HR, i.e. gatekeeper, and now they are the manageresses.

    Like you say: 'what little remains of the UK car building industry'. Ironic eh?
    Toiler on the sea

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