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Thread: Brexit: Conservative MP Nigel Evans 'content with deal'

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javert View Post
    Just to be clear, are you saying this on both sides of the debate or are you suggesting that all the facts supporting Brexit are normal real facts and all the arguments for not doing Brexit are ideological non facts?
    LOL Good try! I don't think I can trust either side for facts/prophesies/details. To be fair it wasn't those that persuaded me to vote leave in the first place. I am much more basic than that and don't like the structure of the EU or the way it operates. Too many countries are struggling for the EU to claim success.
    By their deeds will you know them! xx

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by T00ts View Post
    Is this supposed to make me feel better? According to my maths that still leaves 8 billion for what? I seem to remember that the last time the 'budget' was agreed we tried hard to reign them in. We didn't. So once again what is worth that money and even more as time goes on? Not only that what if we don't like what the rest of the dough goes on? We have been so evident in our affect upon EU decisions of late!
    We debated this least week, depending how you measure it, the net cost of being a member of the EU is something like 145 per year per person (not counting any share of the economic benefits of the free trade arrangements and the contribution that money makes to increasing economic growth across the EU that they get back, if any).

    Looking on the government website I can find a summary of how my taxes were spent last year. "UK Contribution to the EU Budget" is flat bottom of the list at 0.7%. Overseas Aid is next up at 1.1%. Even if you completely elimnate both of these it would hardly make a dent in most of the other categories, and yet everyone in the country seems to focus solely on this one item which is at the flat bottom of the list of spending. This reminds me of a story I once heard about a corporate boardroom where they spent 30 seconds signing off multi million pound projects, and then argued for half an hour about the price of a greenhouse in the garden at the HQ that cost 200.

    The biggest mystery of all around all this is why people who want to leave the EU thinks it's so important and will make such a huge difference, when the cost of it is fairly negligible compared to every other major category of government spending.

    In case you want to know, the biggest cost on the government tax revenue of the country is "welfare" at 24.3%, but if you look at the data in another way, the biggest cost is pensions - funding gold plated pension schemes for government employees both in health and all public sector workers, together with the state pension, is the biggest cost on the government - far far bigger than unemployment benefits for example.

    I'm not saying pensions are bad, but I'm maybe suggesting that if you want to make big savings or changes to the nations fortunes, starting at the bottom of the spending chart and spending 3 years talking only about that might not be the best way.

  3. #33
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    If my memory serves right it was Gordon Brown who killed private pensions while preserving the Public Sector. The little old lady who gets 600 per month is not in clover.
    By their deeds will you know them! xx

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expounder View Post
    What's the point of putting the country into isolation on the outside looking in? Our economy is stronger within the EU which has muscle to fend off any global threats.



    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...u-7904469.html
    Did you actually read your own link? It basically says there will be pros and cons which more or less balance out.
    In what way will we be isolated? In what way will we be subject to global threats?
    those princes have accomplished most who paid little heed to keeping their promises, but who knew how to manipulate the minds of men craftily.

    Machiavelli, The Prince

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expounder View Post
    We need the strength of the EU clout to protect our selves.
    What utter rubbish.
    Our standards are generally much higher than those of Europe.
    Even when rules and regulations are Europe wide, we tend to keep to them, whereas the Southern Med countries really can't be bothered.
    What about Malta and their treatment of wildlife and birds in particular? We can run circles round them on our wildlife and countryside acts.
    Human rights? We have better safeguarding laws than any country in Europe.
    Spain is a wife beating hot spot.

    Sometimes you really do spout bilge, expounder.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    What utter rubbish.
    Our standards are generally much higher than those of Europe.
    Even when rules and regulations are Europe wide, we tend to keep to them, whereas the Southern Med countries really can't be bothered.
    What about Malta and their treatment of wildlife and birds in particular? We can run circles round them on our wildlife and countryside acts.
    Human rights? We have better safeguarding laws than any country in Europe.
    Spain is a wife beating hot spot.

    Sometimes you really do spout bilge, expounder.
    Do you have data and sources to back up all these sweeping stereotypes or are they just coming from Daily Mail headlines?

  7. #37
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    What data and sources would you like about Maltese slaughter of protected birds?
    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...h-bird-hunters
    Check out any Spanish source on the scandal of what they call "gender violence"
    https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/05/31...16_419062.html
    Or help yourself to some stats here:
    http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/...e/index_en.htm

    I don't read the Daily Mail, Javert, I assume you do if you can say they come from their headlines.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    What data and sources would you like about Maltese slaughter of protected birds?
    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...h-bird-hunters
    Check out any Spanish source on the scandal of what they call "gender violence"
    https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/05/31...16_419062.html
    Or help yourself to some stats here:
    http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/...e/index_en.htm

    I don't read the Daily Mail, Javert, I assume you do if you can say they come from their headlines.
    I looked at some of the figures in your link and I didn't see much evidence to support "Southern med countries can't be bothered". There were some figures where they were slightly worse than the UK and one or two where the UK was worse.

    The Maltese birds thing - the Maltese have an opt out from the EU on that regulation, so there's nothing that the EU can do about it as they're not breaking EU law. UK should have vetoed them joining if it was a showstopper for us. Some people in other EU countries might say the same about fox hunting which is not illegal under EU law either, it's only the UK that decided to make it illegal on their own.

    Also none of your links support the statement "Our standards are generally much higher than those of Europe".

    I suspect the often repeated statement that the UK is the only one who obeys EU law and all the other countries ignore it is highly exaggerated.

    In any case the other obvious question is - if other countries are getting all the EU benefits, ignoring the laws, and getting away scot free, why didn't we just do the same instead of leaving? We could have had our cake and eaten it without spending all that money and time on pesky negotiations? This is right up Brexiteer street - ignore the rules and laws and just do whatever you want.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javert View Post

    In any case the other obvious question is - if other countries are getting all the EU benefits, ignoring the laws, and getting away scot free, why didn't we just do the same instead of leaving? We could have had our cake and eaten it without spending all that money and time on pesky negotiations? This is right up Brexiteer street - ignore the rules and laws and just do whatever you want.
    As long as we get to keep our 8bn a year that would be great.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    What utter rubbish.
    Our standards are generally much higher than those of Europe.
    Even when rules and regulations are Europe wide, we tend to keep to them, whereas the Southern Med countries really can't be bothered.
    What about Malta and their treatment of wildlife and birds in particular? We can run circles round them on our wildlife and countryside acts.
    Human rights? We have better safeguarding laws than any country in Europe.
    Spain is a wife beating hot spot.

    Sometimes you really do spout bilge, expounder.

    That's your opinion Barry, in my view you swallow a hell of a lot right wing hog wash to reach your injudicious opinion.
    Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"

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