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Thread: The UK welcomes President Trump

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumzed View Post
    Cromwell, I don't understand your last sentence - I mean I can't work out what you are saying from the syntax.

    I get the impression that in your defence of the righteousness of Brexit you have adopted a position that anyone disagreeing with the results of any referendum or election is being anti-democratic in suggesting that the result may not be the best outcome. Clearly it has not been the case in past times that a majority are always right - there is no magic that says that because a majority votes for something, often with inadequate information, that the result is a good one. It is not challenging democracy to say that but only if one were to be involved in a coup to overturn the result. As a Remainer I have accepted the result of the referendum because that is how the system works and believe we should go for the best deal based on where we are. I also accept that Trump was elected in the US but don't think this was the best outcome for the USA or, in all probability, the rest of the world. In any case a majority voted for Clinton but the electoral college system returned Trump as the winner. That so many people voted for Trump does indeed refect a high degree of dissatisfaction with the previous status quo but it is rather a sad reflection of a system that this is end result. Trump may well be right about trying to limit uncontrolled immigration via the Mexican border and also with putting America first (which is really the basis for his job) though it is not that previous Presidents have not also done this.

    These issues arise because there is no simple way to get a truly representative government - I think a decent PR system would be better (not the rubbish system that was previously offered) but this also has flaws in reaching decisions. However, as we can see in many places in the world, no system works all the time and there will always be those who effectively feel disenfranchised. And even if a government is elected that one wants, it certainly does not mean that everyting they do will be agreeable to everyone that voted for them.

    I think that the western world is reaching a a crisis point in many areas and I believe that Brexit and the election of Trump are symptoms of this. The reasons, I believe, are economic pressures resulting from largely uncontrolled capitalism and a continued rising gap between the richest and the poorest both within each nation and also between the world's populations which I believe will become unsustainable. How this will be managed is key to the sustainability of the world without huge future crises - the recent refugee situation is just a taster.
    Thanks for a very balanced and sensible post Gramuzed........................Exp
    Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnofgwent View Post
    you were doing so well until you tried top tell me the EU provides a protection for poorer workers.

    it does nothing of the sort.

    it blows open the doors of this island and allows any of the 560 million eu27 passport holders of working age (source: uk office of the european parliament feb 2011 personal visit to collect stats and information leaflet for welsh assembly election campaign) free and unfettered access to help themselves to any job on offer.

    it is therefore celebrated by labour and tory entrepreneur alike who pour money into the mainstream coffers to maintain this never ending supply of cheap labour fighting like rats to race to the bottom of the barrel

    As a country outwith the EU and in charge of our borders again we can admit anyone we like on whatever terms we like, without having to grant them anything except the right to be taxed for their labour while they are needed. Just like China, Japan, Saudi, The Cayman Islands ....

    Yes, we need doctors, dentists, engineers. because successive governments, bribed by said entrepreneurs, have seen the rationale of not bothering to train our own and plunder the third world's.

    Which is how Iain Tomlinson didn't get a proper post mortem.

    But what we most certainly do not need, is any more pizza delivery drivers, deliveroo gig economy pedallers, baristas (or barristers either, too many bloody lawyers in this country already) and the like, all low grade low skill jobs for which we have ample of our own thank you.
    I Blame Blair for this he had no need to allow uncontrolled immigration at the time.
    Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expounder View Post
    I Blame Blair for this he had no need to allow uncontrolled immigration at the time.
    Yes, Blair gets the worst prime minister of all time award. As well as introducing the underclass to the country, allowing political correctness, and of course the comp culture, uncontrolled immigration was his biggest mistake, and my God did he make some of those. Ironically enough his love of the EU is what made us vote for Brexit
    Keep Britain British, whoops, it's too late

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Know it View Post
    Yes, Blair gets the worst prime minister of all time award.

    In your opinion not mine, he is second to Thatcher.

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