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Thread: The law needs to be clearer on free speech

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    The law needs to be clearer on free speech

    This case involving a rather unpalatable (to me) individual called Alison Chabloz raises questions in my mind:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-44253085
    She has been convicted of publishing hate speech.

    My question is whether this is almost stating an unwritten law in the UK which makes holocaust denial an indirect offence.
    Or was it the other content that flagged this video and warranted a prosecution by the CPS? It seems to have been the holocaust denying that initiated the originally private prosecution.

    What about other videos that go against the main-swell of opinion such as the one posted on here about the Jo Cox murder? Could that be a target for prosecution?

    The law needs to be clearer, or anyone with an opinion that someone else does not like could end up in prison, which seems to be what the judge is considering in this case.

    By the way, I'm not supporting holocaust deniers, but I do support their rights to free speech even if they are bat**** crazy!
    This thread is about how the law is administered rather than whether the holocaust happened or not.

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    Inciting hatred seems serious enough to be prosecuted. And using public communications network for threats and harassment is already illegal. But neither offence curtails anyone’s freedom to debate and voice their views...
    The poster reserves the right to amend or completely change any opinions he has posted at any time...

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    Satire shouldn't spare any specific group of people - when you can't make fun of a group of people (who enjoy a Status and therefor represent some form of authority) it means you do not live in a free country but in a dictatorship. Freedom of speech and opinion is more important than feelings.

    «The Muslims refuse our culture and try to impose their culture on us. I reject them, and this is not only my duty toward my culture - it is toward my values, my principles, my civilization.» - Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patman Post View Post
    Inciting hatred seems serious enough to be prosecuted. And using public communications network for threats and harassment is already illegal. But neither offence curtails anyone’s freedom to debate and voice their views...
    I didn't realise there was any incitement to hatred in these videos.
    Did she use a public communications network for threats and harassment?

    I'm not sure whether you agree with her prosecution or not. If there were an offence of "holocaust denial" in this country, it would be very clear that is forbidden. But this prosecution started over the holocaust denial and became something else. It certainly backfired when she asked the CPS to take over the case to annul it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benacus View Post
    Satire shouldn't spare any specific group of people - when you can't make fun of a group of people (who enjoy a Status and therefor represent some form of authority) it means you do not live in a free country but in a dictatorship. Freedom of speech and opinion is more important than feelings.
    OK, I haven't watched the video. I agree with your sentiments and feel that our country needs a statement of constitution regarding free speech, rather than badly defined laws which are catch-alls, which might be used unjustly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I didn't realise there was any incitement to hatred in these videos.
    Did she use a public communications network for threats and harassment?

    I'm not sure whether you agree with her prosecution or not. If there were an offence of "holocaust denial" in this country, it would be very clear that is forbidden. But this prosecution started over the holocaust denial and became something else. It certainly backfired when she asked the CPS to take over the case to annul it.
    Like you, I am using whatever has been reported on the Chabloz case, and your link says:

    "Chabloz was convicted of two counts of sending an offensive, indecent or menacing message through a public communications network."

    That statement is clear — ie, it doesn't cloud the issue with holocaust denial. Personally I am happy the Chabloz conviction was fairly arrived at. It stops nobody here from discussing their views on the holocaust...
    The poster reserves the right to amend or completely change any opinions he has posted at any time...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patman Post View Post
    Like you, I am using whatever has been reported on the Chabloz case, and your link says:

    "Chabloz was convicted of two counts of sending an offensive, indecent or menacing message through a public communications network."

    That statement is clear — ie, it doesn't cloud the issue with holocaust denial. Personally I am happy the Chabloz conviction was fairly arrived at. It stops nobody here from discussing their views on the holocaust...
    ok

    The next time Mitch Benn sings something offensive about the leave voters on the now show 'as he ALWAYS does.... I expect to see him put in the cell nextbtomthis woman

    otherwise it's one law for the jews and another for the gentiles
    --
    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnofgwent View Post
    ok

    The next time Mitch Benn sings something offensive about the leave voters on the now show 'as he ALWAYS does.... I expect to see him put in the cell nextbtomthis woman

    otherwise it's one law for the jews and another for the gentiles
    How grossly offensive has Mitch Benn been? I doubt he's been as offensive as some of the Leave voters I've met. Putting to one side the misunderstanding the dumbest among them have that the UK lefty the EU the day after the referendum, they immediately started to moan about the number of non-White people they have to mix with, and now thought they'd all be deported. Quite frankly I have not personally met one intelligent Leave voter — though that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any around...
    The poster reserves the right to amend or completely change any opinions he has posted at any time...

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