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Thread: Is spending the answer?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevlin View Post
    No I didn't - and that should have been clear by my reference to the national debt in my post. it was not the deficit to which I was making reference but to the interest paid to service the national debt that was incurred that year....the deficit for the 1915/16 financial period was in the order of £72 billion!! It would however, been made perfectly clear if I had termed the expenditure as 'debt servicing ' cost!! ;0)
    Oh OK! That is about what I would expect being around 3 to 4%. This was my point that if the debt were increased further the amount paid back would get out of hand. From the historic data from the ONS I estimated the interest to be around 2.8% but thought it to be included in the deficit. Maybe I miscalculated - it's been a long day!

  2. #62
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    I've had a bit more time to re-look at this. Stevelin, I think your indignation was a little misplaced because you referred only to Debt (or national debt) in your original post, and not to the interest paid on this debt, which you acknowledged in your clarification. However, you do highlight the issue as to how the numbers are presented and that it is not clear whether the deficit number includes the interest payment for the previous year or not in the data from the ONS I looked at. It seems it does not. If it were included this would add a significant amount to the deficit each year. This number would be a truer reflection of the annual cost to the taxpayer of having this national debt i.e. money which is buying nothing but is just going to service a debt.

    So for 2015 this would mean the annual cost to the taxpayer of about £125B or £4,000 per UK taxpayer (number of UK taxpayers estimate is 30M). It should also be borne in mind that only 40% of "income taxpayers" are actually nett contributors (that is pay more in income tax than they receive in benefits). Of course the revenue sources are not just restricted to individual taxpayers, but it illustrates the amounts involved that people can relate to. It is a similar number (£4,000) per if taken per household.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumzed View Post
    I've had a bit more time to re-look at this. Stevelin, I think your indignation was a little misplaced because you referred only to Debt (or national debt) in your original post, and not to the interest paid on this debt, which you acknowledged in your clarification. However, you do highlight the issue as to how the numbers are presented and that it is not clear whether the deficit number includes the interest payment for the previous year or not in the data from the ONS I looked at. It seems it does not. If it were included this would add a significant amount to the deficit each year. This number would be a truer reflection of the annual cost to the taxpayer of having this national debt i.e. money which is buying nothing but is just going to service a debt.

    So for 2015 this would mean the annual cost to the taxpayer of about £125B or £4,000 per UK taxpayer (number of UK taxpayers estimate is 30M). It should also be borne in mind that only 40% of "income taxpayers" are actually nett contributors (that is pay more in income tax than they receive in benefits). Of course the revenue sources are not just restricted to individual taxpayers, but it illustrates the amounts involved that people can relate to. It is a similar number (£4,000) per if taken per household.
    Well then, perhaps you should have taken even more time to reflect on the issue, and you might then have realised that I was clearly referring to the debt servicing costs, especially so if you had followed my reference . In addition, you KNOW that the national debt is in the order of 2 £billion, and the actual deficit for that financial year was almost double the figure quoted.
    That wouldn't leave too many alternatives to cover that particular expenditure.
    However, as I stated, I do accept that I was very careless in my reference....and my Fullfact reference would have made the issue very clear.

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    Going back to the thread title, yes and no. It's case of absolute housekeeping, spending has to be related to basic need and potential tax revenue. Whilst I don't vote Tory or Labour, I think it's fair to say that the Conservative party think from the head, and the Labour party just don't think
    Keep Britain British, whoops, it's to late

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    Quote Originally Posted by Know it View Post
    Going back to the thread title, yes and no. It's case of absolute housekeeping, spending has to be related to basic need and potential tax revenue. Whilst I don't vote Tory or Labour, I think it's fair to say that the Conservative party think from the head, and the Labour party just don't think
    There is a well known saying

    'If you don't vote Labour when you are under twenty five then you don't have a heart, If you don't vote Conservative when you are over twenty five you don't have a brain'

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