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Thread: Will Presbyterians be labelled Islamophobic?

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    Will Presbyterians be labelled Islamophobic?

    First mosque to open in Outer Hebrides.
    https://www.premier.org.uk/News/UK/F...rch-opposition
    The Presbyterian Free Church - the local arm of the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing), had called on its followers to pray about the "most unwelcome development".
    In a press release, the church stated: "Our main concern is with the religion of Islam itself. If a mosque ever opens, Islam will be able to promote itself in our midst through public worship, despite its beliefs and practices being alien to the religious convictions of the vast majority of our community.
    "Islam is wholly inconsistent with the teaching of the Word of God in Holy Scripture, which is the only rule to direct us. It is opposed to the Christian religion as confessed by the Church historically since apostolic times, and as established by law in our land since the Reformation."
    How could Scotland be so unwelcoming to other religions?
    How many times have we been told that Scotland is anti-racist, totally equitable and all cultures and immigration is welcome?

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    most of the problem comes from the collectivist psychosis that anything is perfectly defined. it axiomatically leads to the collectivist psychosis that any one thing is the total goal of achieving anything. i look at it like i look at growing pot. you cant add any special chemical to create the super environment to grow the best weed. any one thing helps to deplete any several other things you needed. you need a good mixture of things. the biggest problem with the inclusion of islam is that it excludes everything else. it's like "the wrong way" extract. could be good for something tho. dunno what.

    "pedantic sanctimony will kill you all, it is written." - Saydan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post

    How could Scotland be so unwelcoming to other religions?
    How many times have we been told that Scotland is anti-racist, totally equitable and all cultures and immigration is welcome?
    Who is telling you?

    The difference between your view and the view of a Christian is as it is in the case of the Presbyterian Free Church, they are told what to do by god. I don't know why you should see this as so illogical. Do you expect churches to follow the word of man rather than god? Your response is based on a completely different moral framework. That supposes that it is good and even a duty to welcome all and sundry, even if they have the intention of using that welcome against you. The church is obviously concerned that these interlopers could damage the peace of their community and cause destruction to the practice of their faith ultimately. You must have joined the secularists.

    Here's a simple one for you. If we apply your alternative moral framework and welcome all religions then how would a Christian feel by aiding Satanists? (Yes that's a religion as well).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov View Post
    Who is telling you?

    The difference between your view and the view of a Christian is as it is in the case of the Presbyterian Free Church, they are told what to do by god. I don't know why you should see this as so illogical. Do you expect churches to follow the word of man rather than god? Your response is based on a completely different moral framework. That supposes that it is good and even a duty to welcome all and sundry, even if they have the intention of using that welcome against you. The church is obviously concerned that these interlopers could damage the peace of their community and cause destruction to the practice of their faith ultimately. You must have joined the secularists.

    Here's a simple one for you. If we apply your alternative moral framework and welcome all religions then how would a Christian feel by aiding Satanists? (Yes that's a religion as well).
    That's a very interesting viewpoint. Who indeed guides us? If we are to follow Christ's teachings we should accept all, no matter what they believe until such time that they see the light or all is revealed to them. We should forgive, accept everyone else's free will to worship and believe who and what they may. Should one Church claim to have more guidance from God than any other? If it is so then what proof is there? If God truly guides them all, then why is He so inconsistent? It makes a nonsense of all the claims of hearing the word of God and living by it.

    It seems to me that all religions are 'of man'. All of them have taken the word of God and interpreted it and manipulated it to suit what they want and adapted it to accommodate how they would prefer to live regardless, on the whole, of any instruction of God. It might be quite interesting to have His point of view on the whole subject. I expect we will eventually hear it.
    ...till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me, xx

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    To accept all and to accept all actions of someone or some group are different matters, and also what do you mean by accept? What I think is you are being a tad dishonest in over-generalising. It's like interpreting something which is so out of focus that one can mislead.

    The church we speak of, going by what they have said, is doing a more honest job here because they are trying to be clear and exact, and they are considering it from a wider historical context. They give me the impression they are intelligent people. They don't get swayed by the manipulations in the language which are so incredibly common these days. If you allow yourself to become manipulated then you're not such a real man, but someone who doesn't really care.

    The idea of Christianity is that you have a soul and you have free will. If you don't hang on to that free will then you are no guard against evil. You won't be able to stand up and protect the poor and weak against those that mean to do them harm. I think those who practice it know fully well what the will of god is. It comes from being alert and properly thinking about things. To those that are it is very clear indeed that these people mean to invade. They mean to destroy their Christian community and upset everyone. It's like a kind of Trojan horse putting one of those institutions in their community.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov View Post
    Who is telling you?
    There is a poster called Thomas on this forum who labels people from England as being little Englanders. He suggests that we are all racists.
    He also says that Scotland never acts in such a manner, as they are more welcoming. This is not born out in the statistics of England's growth in population through immigration and Scotland's apparent lack of growth in population. The whole post was tongue in cheek.

    The difference between your view and the view of a Christian is as it is in the case of the Presbyterian Free Church, they are told what to do by god.
    Ouch, I feel judged, but I'll take it on the chin, as you have misunderstood the sarcastic nature of my post
    I don't know why you should see this as so illogical. Do you expect churches to follow the word of man rather than god?
    Most do! That is why they are all registered charities taking cash from the government.
    Your response is based on a completely different moral framework. That supposes that it is good and even a duty to welcome all and sundry, even if they have the intention of using that welcome against you.
    See above. I am no supporter of Islam as it is an anti-Christ faith.
    The church is obviously concerned that these interlopers could damage the peace of their community and cause destruction to the practice of their faith ultimately. You must have joined the secularists.
    I have done no such thing, Baron.

    Here's a simple one for you. If we apply your alternative moral framework and welcome all religions then how would a Christian feel by aiding Satanists? (Yes that's a religion as well).
    I don't welcome all religions. Our government does.

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    I understand where you are coming from and also understand that the natural reaction is to protect but for me the bottom line is that we are all the children of one God whether every person understands that or not. As such we are all brothers and sisters and have been given the same promises and the same earthly plan. It covers all people and judgement is reserved for our Father in Heaven - not us.

    In all faiths there are 'good' and 'bad' people. They live by the understandings that they have been raised with and have then sought out for themselves. They are governed by laws of the countries where they live. If someone breaks a law that is one thing but to hinder someone exercising faith in the only way they know and believe is, for me, against the Christian idea of forgiveness and free will.

    We can do what we can to spread the truth of the Gospel but ultimately we all have a God given choice to follow or not. His judgement is the only one that matters and He is the only one to truly know us. Having said all that I do not believe in total acquiescence. Where another threatens me or my family physically then I will fight with everything I have and I will also stand my ground for my beliefs, but that's as far as I understand the Gospel to guide me.
    ...till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me, xx

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    In the old days they would look at it in this way. They would see a man and if he were "god-fearing" he would be trusted. If he were not, for all they know of a stranger they could stick a knife in his back for his food. So there was a distinction and the non god-fearing type were seen as savages.

    It's a pretty logical and consistent approach to take. If a man is hungry and can be killed for his food then if there is nothing to fear then chances are they will be killed for their food. We are so accustomed to knowing murder is wrong that we often don't even think of what it would have been like in a non-Christian country. OK you might say that a lot of other countries have progressed morally, but who was it that persuaded them?
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    I'm not quite sure I follow your argument but in the situation above the presence of God is not recognised. As I said before the judgement belongs to Him.
    ...till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me, xx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcat View Post
    most of the problem comes from the collectivist psychosis that anything is perfectly defined. it axiomatically leads to the collectivist psychosis that any one thing is the total goal of achieving anything. i look at it like i look at growing pot. you cant add any special chemical to create the super environment to grow the best weed. any one thing helps to deplete any several other things you needed. you need a good mixture of things. the biggest problem with the inclusion of islam is that it excludes everything else. it's like "the wrong way" extract. could be good for something tho. dunno what.

    "pedantic sanctimony will kill you all, it is written." - Saydan
    I have reasons to believe the "collectivist psychosis" comes from scenes like this one:



    And THIS specific picture, was taken during a simulation..
    «The Muslims refuse our culture and try to impose their culture on us. I reject them, and this is not only my duty toward my culture - it is toward my values, my principles, my civilization.» - Oriana Fallaci

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