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Thread: Brexit tower thread (aka General brexit discussion)

  1. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by cromwell View Post
    Have a word with Quackers Gerry because he bemoans the loss of it......... constantly
    I actually meant that comment in the context of the EU being a country which its not. There is EU citizenship afforded to each EU country, but I see it as a technicality as it affords all sorts of protections for it's citizens but these protections are recognised by each member state anyway. Maybe the fear is not loosing EU citizenship and more what changes if any the UK will make to those EU protections post brexit. But I'm second guessing !

  2. #932
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry T View Post
    I actually meant that comment in the context of the EU being a country which its not. There is EU citizenship afforded to each EU country, but I see it as a technicality as it affords all sorts of protections for it's citizens but these protections are recognised by each member state anyway. Maybe the fear is not loosing EU citizenship and more what changes if any the UK will make to those EU protections post brexit. But I'm second guessing !

    Just as a point of information, EU citizenship is a real concept. It was recognised in the Maastricht Treaty and extended in the Amsterdam Treaty, and as such forms part of both EU law and the domestic law of each member state.

    So yes, every citizen of each member state is also an EU citizen and this is enshrined in law.

    EDIT : I think I misread your point Gerry

  3. #933
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    My previously-stated respect for Dominic Raab took somewhat of a knock this morning following his comments that he had not previously understood the importance of the Dover-Calais trade corridor. This man has often been presented as one of the great Brexit brains -- a leading intellectual light in the Leave ideology -- yet he was unaware of the UK's trading of goods being heavily reliant on its most important trade route. (https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...ef=uk-politics)

    Time and time again, I find myself wondering what the Eurosceptics have actually been doing for all these years, aside from fantasising about how good everything would be if everything was . . just . . .better. . . in some dreamy paradise, free from the clutches of the Franco-German ogre creatures and other assorted bogeymen in the EU. Dominic Raab wrote a bloody book on Brexit and only now, having landed the greatest job in the history of British Euroscepticism, the importance of the workings of the Dover-Calais route are dawning on him? It's mental.

    On another note, Raab's infinitely less impressive predecessor and member of the "I Ran Away" club of vocal Brexiteers, David Davis, has come out with the following today on BBC Radio 4: "One of the difficulties about the government's approach to negotiation to date is that they've been unwilling to test the EU's stance on anything, with the possible exception of money". . .

    . . . and in a succinct, cutting manner of taking the words right out of one's mouth, political commentator Ian Dunt tweets: "I see David Davis is currently on Radio 4 attacking his own record as Brexit Secretary".

    Ouch.

  4. #934
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conchúr View Post
    My previously-stated respect for Dominic Raab took somewhat of a knock this morning following his comments that he had not previously understood the importance of the Dover-Calais trade corridor. This man has often been presented as one of the great Brexit brains -- a leading intellectual light in the Leave ideology -- yet he was unaware of the UK's trading of goods being heavily reliant on its most important trade route. (https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...ef=uk-politics)

    Time and time again, I find myself wondering what the Eurosceptics have actually been doing for all these years, aside from fantasising about how good everything would be if everything was . . just . . .better. . . in some dreamy paradise, free from the clutches of the Franco-German ogre creatures and other assorted bogeymen in the EU. Dominic Raab wrote a bloody book on Brexit and only now, having landed the greatest job in the history of British Euroscepticism, the importance of the workings of the Dover-Calais route are dawning on him? It's mental.

    On another note, Raab's infinitely less impressive predecessor and member of the "I Ran Away" club of vocal Brexiteers, David Davis, has come out with the following today on BBC Radio 4: "One of the difficulties about the government's approach to negotiation to date is that they've been unwilling to test the EU's stance on anything, with the possible exception of money". . .

    . . . and in a succinct, cutting manner of taking the words right out of one's mouth, political commentator Ian Dunt tweets: "I see David Davis is currently on Radio 4 attacking his own record as Brexit Secretary".

    Ouch.
    Don't think for a minute you or Ian Dunt haven't been noticed either.We wouldn't want you feeling left out in the cold or anything.
    17,410,742 people said LEAVE!

  5. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry T View Post
    It's a mess because the UK has a international treaty signed so that no change to the NI border is implemented, today there is no solution. The EU has bent by saying NI can stay in the SM and CU which will stop border infrastructure being deployed. The UK have said they'll use technology but that's not invented yet. So how will the UK not put in any form of border infrastructure/controls ? no one can answer that, and that's the UK mess. It's not rubbish.
    Of course it's rubbish.....you speak as if Treaties are cast in stone"!! Guess what? - UK membership of the EU is via a Treaty.....and, it is about to be annulled!!
    Technically, the border should be 'hard' after Brexit - but both sides are clearly set on causing the minimum of disruption to that 'tinderbox'....but it isn't as if the EU have a hard-and-fast rule with regard to 'borders' is it? ....just look at the Schengen area!
    I can't think of anything the EU wants from the UK.
    Of course you can't.....you can't even justify the use of a Political entity for accessing beneficial trade,being an ardent Europhile......and also, despite there being literally BILLIONS of reasons....
    Your totally missing that point. The EU is a mix of countries and each country can leave at any time without consulting the EU, just trigger Art50 and away they go. What's ironic is the UK is also a union like the EU. Its a union of 4 countries but if say Scotland or Wales want to leave they' can't without first getting permission from the UK Govt. which is the remains of the England Govt. Try keep up.
    Strewth! it is high time you actually started - never mind trying to keep up....Of course we KNOW an EU member can leave at any time.....and as you don't appear to realise it, let me now inform you that the UK has actually commenced the 'LEAVING PROCESS!!!' You limitation wrt 'fact' is yet again made made crystal clear...the UK is absolutely unlike the EU - for a start, the governing body which is empowered to be the EXECUTIVE is ELECTED!! In addition, the UK is a UNITED KINGDOM, whereas the EU isn't!!

    Can't be bothered with the rest of your tripe at the moment - so will just ignore it for now......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevlin View Post
    Of course it's rubbish.....you speak as if Treaties are cast in stone"!! Guess what? - UK membership of the EU is via a Treaty.....and, it is about to be annulled!!
    It's an international treaty, lodged with the United Nations. The UK don't have a unilateral decision ability to scrap it. Funny you should pick the word annulled, it's not like a king refused by the pope for an annulment, who then decides he's the king of the church and gives himself an annulment. It doesn't work like that anymore. At the end of the day the UK can ignore the treaty but why would anyone sign an agreement with the UK in the future knowing the UK is disloyal, untrustworthy and will throw you under the bus if a new shiny penny catches your eye. It would be a death nail in the UK's coffin.
    Another silly comparrison, the EU treaty had a built in exit clause, Art50 as you well know. So it was designed to allow members to the treaty to exit. So tell me what is the exit article of the good friday agreement.
    I don't even know if there are remedies in international treaties for parties when one signature decides to default.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevlin View Post
    Technically, the border should be 'hard' after Brexit - but both sides are clearly set on causing the minimum of disruption to that 'tinderbox'....but it isn't as if the EU have a hard-and-fast rule with regard to 'borders' is it? ....just look at the Schengen area!
    You really are waffling, go read a book and when you have a single iota of what your typing about, come back and we'll talk. The EU has very hard and fast rules regarding Schengen and borders, that's why Ireland can't join it...hint hint...CTA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevlin View Post
    Of course you can't.....you can't even justify the use of a Political entity for accessing beneficial trade,being an ardent Europhile......and also, despite there being literally BILLIONS of reasons....
    The UK is an attractive market, its approx 7% of EU exports, but the EU is focused on the 93%, not the 7%. It wants to keep the UK business but the deal the UK gets will be in line with deals other countries have got, nothing more and nothing less. Your right to say the trade is beneficial, but it's not trade between equals. The EU is vastly larger and holds the strings. The UK is not only looking for a trade deal with the EU, a deal like that also gives the UK trade deals with over 60 other countries globally. The stakes are far higher for the UK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevlin View Post
    Strewth! it is high time you actually started - never mind trying to keep up....Of course we KNOW an EU member can leave at any time.....and as you don't appear to realise it, let me now inform you that the UK has actually commenced the 'LEAVING PROCESS!!!' You limitation wrt 'fact' is yet again made made crystal clear...the UK is absolutely unlike the EU - for a start, the governing body which is empowered to be the EXECUTIVE is ELECTED!! In addition, the UK is a UNITED KINGDOM, whereas the EU isn't!!

    Can't be bothered with the rest of your tripe at the moment - so will just ignore it for now......
    ??? you think I don't know your leaving And you got the next bit backwards, the UK sovereign power, is not elected, it's the house of lords. The EU parliament, is elected..you prob voted for one of your MP's. Now you might say the UK parliament has little power but they have to ratify any deal your govt. comes up, and the EU court case in the next couple of weeks might give your parliament the power to cancel brexit and put the UK back into the EU...now that power...un-elected power.
    As for the last point you make, this brexit process has demonstrated that there's nothing united about the united kingdom. Its fractured in so many places. Whereas the EU is very united.

    I don't mind if you disagree with the facts I post, but their not tripe. You tend to get things backwards, as demonstrated above, do you normally do that

  7. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry T View Post
    It's an international treaty, lodged with the United Nations.
    Erm - so what?? Sensible people realise that EU membership is in accordance with a Treaty - but likewise, they also realise that withdrawal processes ,when correctly followed, render that Treaty irrelevant to the withdrawee....
    The UK don't have a unilateral decision ability to scrap it. Funny you should pick the word annulled, it's not like a king refused by the pope for an annulment, who then decides he's the king of the church and gives himself an annulment. It doesn't work like that anymore. At the end of the day the UK can ignore the treaty but why would anyone sign an agreement with the UK in the future knowing the UK is disloyal, untrustworthy and will throw you under the bus if a new shiny penny catches your eye. It would be a death nail in the UK's coffin.
    Absolute rubbish....For your education, to annul, is to declare an official agreement, decision, or result, no longer valid.....so the UK is NOT annulling the Treaty - or scrapping it as you fatuously claim - they are 'withdrawing from it' - in accordance with the approved procedure...
    Another silly comparrison,
    So pleased you seem to, realise that - so why don't you stop making them?
    EU treaty had a built in exit clause, Art50 as you well know. So it was designed to allow signatories to the treaty to exit. So tell me what is the exit article of the good friday agreement.
    Where did I claim there was?? - I pointed out that, as the Irish politician surmised, that Agreement, MAY, be jeopardised......
    I don't even know if there are remedies in international treaties for parties when one signature decides to default.
    Withdrawing from a Treaty, is exercising a RIGHT - i.e it is an entltlement....NOT a default....
    You really are waffling, go read a book and when you have a single iota of what your typing about, come back and we'll talk. The EU has very hard and fast rules regarding Schengen and borders, that's why Ireland can't join it...hint hint...CTA.
    Wrong again - you don't talk - you just bleat!!
    The UK is an attractive market, its approx 7% of EU exports, but the EU is focused on the 93%, not the 7%. It wants to keep the UK business but the deal the UK gets will be in line with deals other countries have got, nothing more and nothing less. Your right to say the trade is beneficial, but it's not trade between equals. The EU is vastly larger and holds the strings. The UK is not only looking for a trade deal with the EU, a deal like that also gives the UK trade deals with over 60 other countries globally. The stakes are far higher for the UK.
    Hence the initial economic 'hit' - albeit, the future will be undeniably brighter as a result.....still no endeavour from you to justify the ridiculous concept of using a political entity for trade advancement I see....
    ??? you think I don't know your leaving And you got the next bit backwards, the UK sovereign power, is not elected, it's the house of lords. The EU parliament, is elected..you prob voted for one of your MP's. Now you might say the UK parliament has little power but they have to ratify any deal your govt. comes up, and the EU court case in the next couple of weeks might give your parliament the power to cancel brexit and put the UK back into the EU...now that power...un-elected power
    Don't be so silly.....the HoL is a mere 'delaying' facility - but admittedly, an affront to democracy - just like your beloved EU.....
    As for the last point you make, this brexit process has demonstrated that there's nothing united about the united kingdom. Its fractured in so many places. Whereas the EU is very united.
    Yet another asinine comment!! Irrespective of the individual UK national preferences, the United Kingdom remains the United Kingdom until it breaks up.....just like London may well have voted to remain, but nevertheless will still be leaving the EU, (hopefully - despite May), irrespective.
    I don't mind if you disagree with the facts I post, but their not tripe. You tend to get things backwards, as demonstrated above, do you normally do that
    Neither do I mind if you disagree - but you DO post 'tripe'. For example, your unsupported assertions ARE clearly tripe, because they lack sensible corroboration - they are mere speculation, and will remain so UNTIL supported with verifiable facts - and that is impossible, because you DO NOT possess a magic crystal ball, despite what you think.... You should have learned that lesson from the very much discredited 'Project Fear', over the mere referendum event......but history, and the majority of countries, clearly illustrate that membership of a political entity is absolutely unnecessary for economic growth....

  8. #938
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    Incidentally Gerry - YOU are the one who appears to get things backwards as the HoL is NOT a sovereign power at all!!
    The House of Lords is the upper house of the UK bicameral parliament, which scrutinises bills that have been approved by the House of Commons....... It is part of the legislative process, and can propose legislative initiatives....but , IF a governing Executive is intent on incorporating specific legislation, and has the support of the Commons, it can over-ride any HoL opposition by utilising the 1911 Parliamentary Act.

  9. #939
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    Yes, the HoL simply introduces elements of "checks and balance".

  10. #940
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    Good news from scotland perspective.......


    Merkel ally Manfred Weber takes leap towards becoming next EU president

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8623811.html


    Heres what Manfred said about scotland


    “On the Scottish level ... it is up to them. Europe is open to new member states, that is totally clear. Those who want to stay are welcome in the European Union.”
    Bit awkward for the brexiting brit nats if he gets in , and the back of the queue shite for re joining the eu that we heard the last time round from them.
    sing to me the history of my country. It is sweet to the soul to hear it. Flann Mac Lonain ( c.850-918 a.d)
    Alba gu brath An rud is fhiach a ghabhail, 's fhiach e iarraidh

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