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Thread: Hug a Squaddie

  1. #21
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    Question: if profiling is wrong to fill quotas in government and the military, is profiling also wrong in policing/sussing the public...?
    The poster reserves the right to amend or completely change any opinions he has posted at any time — meanwhile, still waiting for the whip hand that Enoch forecast...

  2. #22
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    I don't think people should obtain positions just because they are "minority" or because they are women. They should get the position provided they have the ability and the skills necessary to run a certain office. I don't have a problem with women running my government, but i surely don't like non-italian politicians (or those who claim to be italian but they were born in Congo, such as former Minister Kyenge...) tell me what i can do or what i cannot do, or take decisions for a people they share nothing with except a piece of paper that says they are citizens.
    «The Muslims refuse our culture and try to impose their culture on us. I reject them, and this is not only my duty toward my culture - it is toward my values, my principles, my civilization.» - Oriana Fallaci

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patman Post View Post
    Question: if profiling is wrong to fill quotas in government and the military, is profiling also wrong in policing/sussing the public...?
    No it's not wrong, because it is a totally different type of profiling, used for a different reason.
    Keep Britain British, whoops, it's to late

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by uganda View Post
    Apology for what? I did realise as I was writing that last post that this was all happening on the wrong thread - which has happened because you followed up your OP with another post about army recruitment, so you can hardly blame the rest of us when it is you who changed the subject.

    The fact remains that you have misrepresented my argument because I have never claimed what you said I did and that is the end of it. If you can't accept that, then may I suggest you take it to the new Question Time thread before we both get infractions?
    UGANDA, stop bickering, and debate. What is your stance on the thread, I still have absolutely no idea ?
    Keep Britain British, whoops, it's to late

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Know it View Post
    UGANDA, stop bickering, and debate. What is your stance on the thread, I still have absolutely no idea ?
    Post 7 refers.

    If you don't want there to be bickering, then don't invent my positions for me. It's tiresome, and I will call you out on it.
    It's amazing how common this narcissism is: I disagree with person A, and I also disagree with person B, therefore A and B are identical - Daniel Hannan

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by uganda View Post
    Post 7 refers.

    If you don't want there to be bickering, then don't invent my positions for me. It's tiresome, and I will call you out on it.
    LOL, call me on it

    If the thread you refer to is about "spreading the net" I actually agree, but that isn't what the advert is doing. It is targeting minority groups, rather than capturing the imagination of the biggest pool of potential recruits. It shouldn't being mentioning ethnicity, colour or sex. I honestly don't think for one minute there is a person from a minority group in this country who believes they can't join the army. Regrettably a large percentage of immigrants and second generation immigrants chose not to feel part of the country that has given them so much, and this is why four times as many Muslims have joined ISIS than the army. Sorry if I have bored you with this statistic, but it says so much.

    My issue is NOT with minority groups or gay people joining the forces, it is with the ridiculous advertisement, that ultimately was paid for by the tax payer. There is a right time to profile, and there is a wrong time to profile, and this is the wrong time
    Keep Britain British, whoops, it's to late

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Know it View Post
    LOL, call me on it
    Yes, call you on it. As I am doing now.

    If the thread you refer to is about "spreading the net" I actually agree, but that isn't what the advert is doing. It is targeting minority groups, rather than capturing the imagination of the biggest pool of potential recruits. It shouldn't being mentioning ethnicity, colour or sex. I honestly don't think for one minute there is a person from a minority group in this country who believes they can't join the army. Regrettably a large percentage of immigrants and second generation immigrants chose not to feel part of the country that has given them so much, and this is why four times as many Muslims have joined ISIS than the army. Sorry if I have bored you with this statistic, but it says so much.

    My issue is NOT with minority groups or gay people joining the forces, it is with the ridiculous advertisement, that ultimately was paid for by the tax payer. There is a right time to profile, and there is a wrong time to profile, and this is the wrong time
    I am not answering any of this until you stop misrepresenting me. You wrote this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Know it View Post
    So basically, you and UGANDA think that racial and sexual profiling is important when building a government or an army. I thought talent, qualification, and compatibility were the only really important things, but it would appear I must be wrong
    That is all predicated on you inventing my position for me. I have explained why. You have not been able to respond so that's the end of that.
    It's amazing how common this narcissism is: I disagree with person A, and I also disagree with person B, therefore A and B are identical - Daniel Hannan

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Know it View Post
    However, I don't have a problem with either joining the army as long as they accept the indefinite ridicule and bullying they will have to undergo. Neither you or I may like this, but it's reality, as soldiers tend to be no more than grown up children who will latch on to anything different. Believe me, I have befriended many ex squadies over the years, and that's what they are like. Changing the rules and regulations will make no difference, and to change the culture may take several generations.
    So, you know a few squaddies. But you know little about the British Army apparently.

    No, not "children". Many, of my generation anyway, were old beyond their years when they signed up. Often, to get away from things you probably can't imagine. The prospect of getting shot was a better future for some of us than what life currently offered. Work that out. Or maybe not then.

    Yes, the vast majority of us were white working class kids. And you are right in that respect at least. The British Army has proved over and over and over again that its model works. That's why many of us that lasted in service beyond 6 years and became NCO's, ended up travelling the world to train other countries Armies. We were the best, and there is no argument that can be won against it, because the facts speak for themselves. The British Army is the go to model for EVERY other serious armed force. I was Infantry, combat arms, from day one. Thirteen and a half years. It was never going to be any different for someone like me. 17, 18, maybe 20 years old, all of us. At least, back then anyway. But we were all, almost without exception, from poor areas, working class, poor education, with a fragmented family. The kind of people some posters on here look down on, while pretending to be "socialists".

    When you are 19 and full of testosterone, you aren't bothered whose war you are fighting. All you want to do is shag and get pissed. If the press, and even these days the impotent Army itself, led you to believe that when outrageous fights between Regiments took place in Canada, or Cyprus, or Kenya, that it was monstrous indiscipline, that isn't exactly true. The British Army have wrecked bars and clubs all over the world, and if they couldn't find other nationalities to fight with (particularly US soldiers), then they'd fight with each other. Inter regimental fighting was a sport in the army. Not exactly something they ever came down on hard in the old days. Why? You train people to fight and get pissed off when they do? That is going to work with people, many of whom can't spell their own name, isn't it? All you need to know is that it comes on top, they will be beside you. That is what you need in a soldier. Not a saint. Not a scholar. Not a wise man. Someone who will stand by you and fight. And die next to you if necessary. You learn that in bars and clubs before you ever see a battlefield. It doesn't necessarily matter what colour, or religion, or gender, or orientation he is. As long as he will fight.

    What does matter is common cause. "Belonging", as they call it now. You harped on about "bullying". Most people who can't make it fail in basic training. The first 16 weeks of absolute beasting designed to weed out the wannabees and shitbags that shouldn't even be there. Because they are a liability. I couldn't give a **** what colour, or sex, or sexual orientation (yawn) they are, if you can't hack it, then you are wasting everyone's time. In my experience, the vast majority who failed, they failed mentally, not physically. Because they couldn't adapt to an environment where they weren't the most important thing in the world. An infantry company in the field is the closest thing to true socialism that there will ever be. No one digs the latrine alone. No one carries less than their fair share of the ammo and equipment. No one does more stag or reps than anyone else. It cannot work any other way.

    As for bullying? Everyone in the Army gets "bullied". Everyone gets the piss ripped out of them, Mercilessly. It doesn't matter whether you are white or black, gay or straight, have big ears or ginger hair. They will rip you to shreds, whatever they find. And if you can't hack that, then **** OFF. You shouldn't be there, and we don't want you there. You are a liability. Because if you can't hack that, then when a mortar round takes the man next to you's head off, you will be useless. There is enough you'll have to deal with on a battlefield without over emotional or political bullshit that has NO place there. It's about winning, about staying alive, and getting home again.

    In practice, the field is a great leveller. On exercise, put everyone together on a hill at 5 degrees below zero with limited rations and a strong wind blowing up, and most peoples differences will disappear instantly. A real operation, plus 100. Because then, it becomes a common interest, a shared exercise, to stay alive. To experience real fear. To stay alive another day. Only when you put people on the edge, will they learn that they need each other, more than they need their differences. That is what being a soldier really means.

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  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeppityDawg View Post
    But we were all, almost without exception, from poor areas, working class, poor education, with a fragmented family. The kind of people some posters on here look down on, while pretending to be "socialists".
    What a shame you had to put this ludicrous slander into an otherwise excellent post.

    I have posted on and off here for some 7 years and no poster I can think of meets this description. Except maybe Lois Lane, and she hasn't posted here for centuries. If you think I'm wrong, then by all means name who you mean - I have no doubt you performed your military duties with great physical and mental courage, so let's see if your moral courage matches it.
    It's amazing how common this narcissism is: I disagree with person A, and I also disagree with person B, therefore A and B are identical - Daniel Hannan

  11. #30
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    Isn't it fair to say that war is changing and certainly will over the next decades. Perhaps with that in mind there will be less emphasis on personal strength and bravery and more on education to enable drones etc. I don't pretend to know anything about the forces but it seems that there is a feeling among many that war is the province of someone else and is no longer a first/second choice for career. If a war were to happen where suddenly there had to be conscription there would be uproar.

    Perhaps the move is to change the face of the job and therefore the recruitment needs.
    By their deeds will you know them! xx

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