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Thread: Haulage licences issue

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    Haulage licences issue

    This

    https://ec.europa.eu/transport/trans...takeholders_en

    Points out that, in the event of "no deal" Brexit*, haulage and commercial drivers based in the UK will no longer be able to operate in the EU based on their UK certification.

    The reverse may apply (although the UK may unilaterally decide to recognise EU operators based on their EU issued certification) to EU operators in the UK.

    The implications, should this occur are massive.

    Cargo moving to or from the EU by lorry (i.e. ferry) will no longer be able to "roll on/roll off".

    In the most extreme case where the vehicles themselves are not authorised to operate cross channel, cargo would have to be unloaded and loaded when crossing the channel.

    Even the case of having to switch drivers would as massively to the cost and time of shipping.

    The only solution would be for freight companies and drivers to become authorised by both UK and an EU authority. Again this would increase red tape and ultimately, costs.

    This scenario is unlikely as it would be catastrophic for both sides (but the UK particularly) so some sort of agreement would be reached.

    It does illustrate why claiming that "no deal" is a realistic (let alone desirable) outcome is simply not credible.

    *By "no deal" I am talking about the sort of "tell the EU to shove it's bill and walk away now" Brexit that some on the extreme end of the spectrum advocate.

    A simple hard Brexit of the UK having no trade deal with the EU beyond WTO default but arranging other agreements like aviation or haulage agreements would, by definition, avoid this scenario.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beelbeeb View Post

    The only solution would be for freight companies and drivers to become authorised by both UK and an EU authority. Again this would increase red tape and ultimately, costs.
    Everything increases red tape and costs.

    The various pen pushers on either side of the sleeve will do whatever they can to protect their jobs and if the cost is too high we will just have to tax the Remainers of Islington and Hackney.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Borchester View Post
    Everything increases red tape and costs.

    The various pen pushers on either side of the sleeve will do whatever they can to protect their jobs and if the cost is too high we will just have to tax the Remainers of Islington and Hackney.
    Well, not leaving wouldn't increase costs. Haulage firms and drivers could continue to do business just registered and approved with the UK authorities.

    To put it another way, can anyone think of any way that we can reduce red tape and costs for haulage firms without remaining in the EU?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beelbeeb View Post
    Well, not leaving wouldn't increase costs. Haulage firms and drivers could continue to do business just registered and approved with the UK authorities.

    To put it another way, can anyone think of any way that we can reduce red tape and costs for haulage firms without remaining in the EU?
    Isn't all this yet to be negotiated and agreed...?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patman Post View Post
    Isn't all this yet to be negotiated and agreed...?
    yes it is but if no agreement is made ("no deal Brexit") then this is what will happen.

    Remember the government position is still "no deal is better than a bad deal".

    Well, "no deal" may well including massive disruption to road shipping (which makes up a large volume of UK imports and exports but a small proportion of EU27 imports and exports).

    It is difficult to comprehend how any deal could he worse than "no deal" from the UK perspective.

    The idea that this is a plausible negotiating tactic is like threatening to ruin somebody's shirt by getting brains over them when you blow your head off.

    Claiming that it is a viable option just makes the UK look stupid and hinders negotiations.

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    I don't think anyone, at least anyone who is involved with the negotiations, really believes that "no-deal" would be a viable option. Nonetheless it is not a bad idea to have it in the background so it may be used as a threat, for example, "yes we know this would be a disaster for both of us Mr Barnier, but we have to get a deal that we can sell to our people". This to be used should the UK get a patently bad deal as the EU's final offer. Remember the concept of a "punishment" deal has been suggested by the EU. In any case, the Irish border resolution has to be resolved by some sort of deal and, in any case, it makes more sense for the EU to be accommodating rather than act as a jailer (perhaps manager of Hotel California is a better term).

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    Quote Originally Posted by beelbeeb View Post
    yes it is but if no agreement is made ("no deal Brexit") then this is what will happen.

    Remember the government position is still "no deal is better than a bad deal".

    Well, "no deal" may well including massive disruption to road shipping (which makes up a large volume of UK imports and exports but a small proportion of EU27 imports and exports).

    It is difficult to comprehend how any deal could he worse than "no deal" from the UK perspective.

    The idea that this is a plausible negotiating tactic is like threatening to ruin somebody's shirt by getting brains over them when you blow your head off.

    Claiming that it is a viable option just makes the UK look stupid and hinders negotiations.
    Quite, even if we have a minister for a "no deal" brexit appointed today.
    Having read the document it just goes to show the huge organisation built by the EU, full of unnecessary red tape which they will probably rip up if the need arises.
    Trade and money trump needless regulations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Quite, even if we have a minister for a "no deal" brexit appointed today.
    Having read the document it just goes to show the huge organisation built by the EU, full of unnecessary red tape which they will probably rip up if the need arises.
    Trade and money trump needless regulations.
    "Unnecessary Red tape"?

    So you have a couple of options:

    You could restrict driving in the UK to people who have passed a UK test and have the suitable UK certifications (medical certificates, criminal records checks etc). The UK would be in complete control of those test and requirements and the exact amount of red tape.

    Of course, it would mean extra red tape for UK drivers in the EU and vice versa as they would need to comply with both UK requirements and EU ones. It may also result in inefficient workarounds like having to swap drivers, or even vehicles at the border (ferry) which would result in cost, delays and inconvenience.

    Alternatively we could work with our near neighbours to make sure that we all have substantially similar requirements and procedures and can therefore also agree to simply recognise each others certification as equivalent. Such a coordination doesn't just happen. It takes effort to bring about and effort to maintain.

    If the UK drops out of this arrangement the amount of "red tape" will increase not decrease.

    At the moment you can depart on a transeuropean coach tour from the UK, with UK drivers in a UK bus and drive across Europe. No swapping vehicles, no need for the drivers to have passed tests in France, Italy (in French or Italian) or hire EU drivers.

    Trade and money can drive regulations. It's in industry's interests to have harmonious regulations as it drives down costs and makes trade easier.

    On the other hand it's in consumers interests to have regulations as it helps protect them from unrestrained industry.

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    Many of those who professed to have voted for a Common Market, and now are calling for no-deal Brexit, were probably only interested in joining for the cheap booze and fags. Now smuggled tobacco probably accounts for a big proportion of the dwindling smokersí market, and booze is brought in at reasonable prices from round the world, neither is a strong draw.

    The UK used air, road and sea for importing and exporting cargo before joining the EEC and continuing in the EU. And just recently it has received a trainload of goods from China. No doubt all sorts of new licences and agreements will need to be negotiated to transport and trade after Brexit, and itís probable extra costs will be involved. However, I doubt these will add up to fatal blows to UK trading ó just extra difficulties...
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    One wonders how IBM ever got the computers shipped in the days when east Germans fancying becoming West Germans had to dodge bullets.

    I certainly don't recall dad having a problem accompanying the convoys that had very British drivers in them when we were outside the EEC ....
    --
    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue" (Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929")

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