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Thread: NYC truck attack

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by uganda View Post
    Such as what type of action?
    That,s up to them going back to where they come from to look after there own rather than others doing it for them would be an action that could be commended
    Quote Originally Posted by uganda View Post
    Why would they say their religion is wrong, when they don't believe it is? Don't you know how religions work?
    people are free to believe what they want when they want,equally we can chose to change our minds when we want,are you saying that Muslims are not allowed to change their minds...even when the evidence proves them wrong..Isn't that a form of tyranny,That,s how islam works...


    Quote Originally Posted by uganda View Post
    I renounced Catholicism as a young man, so what? Who claimed that religious people never change their minds? Not me. Are you even reading what I write? I'm saying why would people doing bad things in a religion's name stop innocent adherents of that religion believing in it? See, the reason you never get this right is you continually lump in innocent Muslims with guilty ones, which is completely illogical. You try to justify this by presuming that all Muslims know where the next terrorist is coming from and fail to stop it, or because they fail to engage in vigilantism, it would appear from your first comment.
    What,s completely illogical on the one hand saying you renounce Catholicism on the other support Muslims rights as innocent considering the difference between the two,begs the question what is it you believe in now? are you a Muslim?any reasonable man would renounce a religion that promotes terrorism violence against there own as islam does yet alone terrorise the country that actively feeds them and clothe them to keep them safe,what we do know is that terrorist are more likely from the islamic faith than any other.


    Quote Originally Posted by uganda View Post
    I'm a Catholic (by birth, not by belief any more) so who did I protect and fail to renounce? Come on, your logic states we are all as guilty as each other, so please make it plain what you are accusing me of.
    not accusing you of anything, you know if your guilty of anything, Ill leave that with you..


    Quote Originally Posted by uganda View Post
    What, all Muslims do that, do they? Where do you get this bilge from? If you mean Iran, Iran is a nasty regime which I deplore, as are Saudi Arabia and Pakistan (even though the West calls them allies). To make out that all Muslims do that, or approve of it, is just ridiculous.
    Iran Saudi,s Pakistan,that rather a lot of Muslims not all I grant you, however as you very rarely can tell who side there on as they all claim to be muslim id sooner air on the side of caution

    Quote Originally Posted by uganda View Post
    Your poison just never stops - I mean, what do you say about the Muslim paediatrician who saved my daughter's life when she was born the colour of a smurf and making not a sound? I never got to thank him in the spiral of emotions I felt that day, but when I think about heros like him, and the sort of scum that presume he is a terrorist sympathiser, it just makes me sick.
    Muslim or not I bet you would have felt just the same sort of emotion whatever coulor religion he she is, still it changes nothing, it takes all sorts to make a terrorist..
    All it takes for evil to succeed is that good people do nothing
    When men cease to believe in god, thay do not therefore believe in nothing ,thay then become capable of believing anything. G.K Chesterton
    If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?" William Shakespeare,
    The cleverest thing the New World Order has done, is to convince mankind that It's a good thing to be enslaved.

  2. #132
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    A LONG OVERDUE step in the right direction which i most heartily welcome.

    But surely a rather RECENT step ???
    --
    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by uganda View Post
    I'm a Catholic (by birth, not by belief any more)
    Well, that's an interesting statement. How does that work (being a catholic "by birth" i mean).

    As you probably know as I've said it often enough, I once believed there was a god, and was rather public about saying so, but I don't any more.

    But I wasn't aware that one "inherited" one's religion in the way one inherited one's eye colour, other than perhaps one gets indoctrinated into the religion of one's parents and may be happy with that when one gets old enough to think about it for oneself, or may not be... *I* have no problem with the idea of changing one's mind, and I've come to live with the fact one of my kids insists on calling herself a christian (but has some pretty unchristian behaviours) and the other considers herself a pagan. so what you believe now, or previously, is your problem or not as you see fit, but born a particular cultist ? No.
    --
    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnofgwent View Post
    But surely a rather RECENT step ???
    Without wishing to restart an interminable bit of Punch and Judy that only just ended: Nothing recent about it at all - prominent muslims have been condemning terrorists for years.

    A perfectly legitimate comparison would be with the condemnation the IRA received from the Catholic Church and various Popes. (i.e: None...)

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by fubar View Post
    That,s up to them going back to where they come from to look after there own rather than others doing it for them would be an action that could be commended
    Look after their own? Do you understand anything about why people flee countries? People do fight back, but they also have an imperative to get their families out. Have you actually ever met any refugees and spoken to them? You do know that this is not a new problem, right? You know that Jewish refugees from the Russian pogroms in the late 19th century faced similar problems? Or that your friends in the Daily Mail wanted to send back Jews fleeing Hitler? Remember the Vietnamese boat people? The refugees from the Bangladeshi famine? Those fleeing Idi Amin? I mean, are you completely oblivious to history?

    And in any case, most Muslim immigrants are not refugees anyway, so what action should they take? What action should I have taken against the IRA, given that I was brought up in an Irish Catholic family in London?

    people are free to believe what they want when they want,equally we can chose to change our minds when we want,are you saying that Muslims are not allowed to change their minds...even when the evidence proves them wrong..Isn't that a form of tyranny,That,s how islam works...
    I didn't say they can't change their minds. They can and do. My point was that you expect them to do so, and that is a really stupid position to take. But why am I not surprised to find you moving the goalposts?

    What,s completely illogical on the one hand saying you renounce Catholicism on the other support Muslims rights as innocent considering the difference between the two,begs the question what is it you believe in now? are you a Muslim?
    What are you even going on about? I'm an atheist and I do not believe in Catholicism or Islam - how is that difficult to understand? But neither do I think it is OK to attack Catholics or Muslims just because of the crimes of a tiny minority of those who claim to act in its name. Your logic says that because I renounce Catholicism that I must hate all religious people - and that is a crock of ****.

    any reasonable man would renounce a religion that promotes terrorism violence against there own as islam does yet alone terrorise the country that actively feeds them and clothe them to keep them safe,
    Bu the religion does not promote terrorism. Extremist elements of that religion promote it. Saudi Arabia, a country we do a lot of business with, actually funds a lot of terrorism for political, rather than religious, reasons, and we support them all the way while pretending not to.


    what we do know is that terrorist are more likely from the islamic faith than any other.
    Hmm, not necessarily so in the USA. And not necessarily so if you count waging illegal wars as terrorism, such as this country did - our Christian PM being guided 'by God'.

    But let's allow you that most terrorists are Muslim, for the sake of argument. They still represent a tiny minority of Muslims, and they are clearly extremists. So again, I invite you to understand the difference between Islam, and extremist Islam. But I won't be holding my breath, as you are determined to frame the narrative in whatever way puts your chosen scapegoat for your own inadequacies in as bad a light as possible.

    not accusing you of anything, you know if your guilty of anything, Ill leave that with you..
    Well, I know I'm not guilty of anything, so that clears that up.

    Which begs the question, why are you spouting an argument whose logic makes it clear I am as guilty as IRA terrorists?

    Iran Saudi,s Pakistan,that rather a lot of Muslims not all I grant you, however as you very rarely can tell who side there on as they all claim to be muslim id sooner air on the side of caution
    Islamic extremism is a problem for those countries, and a problem we in the West have done very well to help foster, by tolerating Saudi Wahhabism because it was financially expedient, and by using the other countries, plus many less powerful ones, as pawns in a geopolitical chess game.

    When you understand how these things work, come and let me know. In the meantime, the sheep will continue to point at the scapegoat they have been told to point at.

    Muslim or not I bet you would have felt just the same sort of emotion whatever coulor religion he she is,
    Indeed, I would have been just as grateful to the paediatrician if they had been a Jew, a Christian, a Hindu or an atheist - because, and let's see if you can understand this, I don't discriminate in that way. There are good and bad in all these groups. But your logic is that the hero that saved my child's life should be looked at with suspicion. Well, I look at you with suspicion, lad. Not because of your religion or lack of it, not because of your nationality or the colour of your skin, but because of your irrational hatred of innocent people, the clear evidence of which is shown in your words on the screen.

    still it changes nothing, it takes all sorts to make a terrorist..
    Indeed it does. You could be a terrorist for all I know. So what?
    It's amazing how common this narcissism is: I disagree with person A, and I also disagree with person B, therefore A and B are identical - Daniel Hannan

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnofgwent View Post
    A LONG OVERDUE step in the right direction which i most heartily welcome.

    But surely a rather RECENT step ???
    No, it's not recent. Why are you making things up? Muslims have always condemned such attacks:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4660411.stm
    It's amazing how common this narcissism is: I disagree with person A, and I also disagree with person B, therefore A and B are identical - Daniel Hannan

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnofgwent View Post
    Well, that's an interesting statement. How does that work (being a catholic "by birth" i mean).
    My formative years were informed by a number of things, including Catholicism.

    As you probably know as I've said it often enough, I once believed there was a god, and was rather public about saying so, but I don't any more.
    Yeah, so what? I believed in God till I was about 16, thought about it and rejected it as a rather daft notion, all things considered. It's a common enough process. I've known Muslims go through the same.

    But I wasn't aware that one "inherited" one's religion in the way one inherited one's eye colour, other than perhaps one gets indoctrinated into the religion of one's parents and may be happy with that when one gets old enough to think about it for oneself, or may not be... *I* have no problem with the idea of changing one's mind, and I've come to live with the fact one of my kids insists on calling herself a christian (but has some pretty unchristian behaviours) and the other considers herself a pagan. so what you believe now, or previously, is your problem or not as you see fit, but born a particular cultist ? No.
    I honestly don't know what you're going on about, John. People are free to believe or not believe what they like - if they start to interpret those beliefs in a certain way as to make them defend them with violence and intolerance, then I will be condemning that. It's why I abhor Islamic extremism every bit as much as you do.
    It's amazing how common this narcissism is: I disagree with person A, and I also disagree with person B, therefore A and B are identical - Daniel Hannan

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