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Thread: Ireland / Northern Ireland border issues after Brexit

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by beelbeeb View Post
    Given the current government's performance in the Brexit negotiations cannot be described as impressive, what level of confidence do you have in the UK's ability to get a beneficial deal with the likes of China?
    Forget China: You should see the Trade Agreement we're going to forge with Tuvalu. Coconuts are going to be sooo cheap. That'll shut the cynics up...

  2. #42
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    I can't find the quote - I think it was an essay by Edith Somerville - but never forget:

    Those who celebrate the British Empire would do well to remember it was built by Irish sweat, fought for with Scottish arms and founded on Welsh coal - and the English have repayed these efforts with poverty and subjugation
    (Approximate...)

  3. #43
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    Aha! I was wrong about the date stamp issue before though I am right about anomalies occurring that I have seen from time to time. When I looked at this page before logging in, Raymond's post was date stamped 10:46 and the actual time of day was about 09:50 or so. I logged in and the date stamp time changed to the (probably) correct time of 09:46. This is a technical problem. It is not very important but at least I know now I had not imagined the whole issue.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaymondDelauney View Post
    I can't find the quote - I think it was an essay by Edith Somerville - but never forget:


    "Those who celebrate the British Empire would do well to remember it was built by Irish sweat, fought for with Scottish arms and founded on Welsh coal - and the English have repayed these efforts with poverty and subjugation"




    (Approximate...)
    Sounds good, although to be fair the provincials were pretty good at passing the pain along. The reason so many West Indians have Irish, Welsh or Scottish surnames was because those were the folk doing the slave driving on the sugar islands. And here I leave myself wide open because I have lost the source, but the Indian Civil Service, which did such a splendid job of keeping the Indians, Burmese and oddly enough, the Arabs under control was generally considered a make work scheme for the aforementioned Irish, Scots and Welsh.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borchester View Post
    Sounds good, although to be fair the provincials were pretty good at passing the pain along. The reason so many West Indians have Irish, Welsh or Scottish surnames was because those were the folk doing the slave driving on the sugar islands. And here I leave myself wide open because I have lost the source, but the Indian Civil Service, which did such a splendid job of keeping the Indians, Burmese and oddly enough, the Arabs under control was generally considered a make work scheme for the aforementioned Irish, Scots and Welsh.
    And? When I lived in Ghana, visits to the Ussher Fort Museum explained that there were royal families across the Asante Kingdom who became rich from their complicity in slavery. Never made it a good thing, nor exonerated those countries buying and using slaves.

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  7. #46
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    This aint part of some kind of perceived war between the English and the Irish, or even the British and Irish, its a political disagreement born out of the desire of most people in Europe to work together with closer ties, and the British people who seemingly do not want to participate after 40 years of doing so.

    Like many British people, I am on the side of Ireland, they are right, they are correct, and it is they ( with the support of the other 26 EU members ) who have the upper hand, they will call the shots, not us.

    There is a very very simple way out of all this, and that is to compromise - leave the European Union but remain in the Single Market and Customs Union, it would solve everything including the Irish border dispute, but of course the hard-line Brexiteers wont have it, they interpret the referendum as meaning ending trade ties as well as economic / political ties.

    I wonder how the hard-line Brexiters now feel at seeing Theresa May dancing to the tune of Ireland
    We're all Jock Tamson's bairns

  8. #47
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    As far as I can see the UK negotiators want to ensure that the sequence of the negotiations is massaged away from the EU demanded sequence where the UK had to agree to a divorce settlement without getting anything in return. I think the EU negotiators recognise this and so the two teams reached a form of words that allow more equitable negotiations to continue with possible trading arrangements being a part. The DUP are not known for such subtleties and, of course, such open explanations cannot be advertised too widely.

    IMO the UK will be part of, at least in some way, with the Single Market and Customs Union but will have free movement restricted. There will probably be a transition from the jurisdiction from the ECJ and the UK will pay large amounts of cash for the whole arrangement. This is not compatible with being able to negotaite independent trade deals elsewhere, unless under EU terms, but I can't see any other options being viable.

    A further possibility is to have an extended transition arrangement sufficiently to allow a rethink within the UK and also within the EU and for all sides to be more reasonable. Nah! It won't happen.

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfinder View Post

    I wonder how the hard-line Brexiters now feel at seeing Theresa May dancing to the tune of Ireland
    I don't know about the other Brexiters, but to my way of thinking Mrs May is a weak fool and the sooner she returns to the vicarage and concerns herself with the flower arranging committee the better off we shall all be. But first I would like her to see the European Union (Withdrawal Bill) become law, which is the important bit.

    The trade deals will sort themselves out.

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfinder View Post

    There is a very very simple way out of all this, and that is to compromise - leave the European Union but remain in the Single Market and Customs Union, it would solve everything including the Irish border dispute, but of course the hard-line Brexiteers wont have it, they interpret the referendum as meaning ending trade ties as well as economic / political ties.
    Another idea might be to unload Northern Ireland onto the Republic. I am not sure that the latter would be as pleased as they make out and the DUP would kick up a fuss, but the worst that would happen would be Irish squaddies being murdered in the happily ex province, rather than English ones.

    The border would then become the Irish Sea, which we could make as hard or soft as the need arises.

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaymondDelauney View Post
    And? When I lived in Ghana, visits to the Ussher Fort Museum explained that there were royal families across the Asante Kingdom who became rich from their complicity in slavery. Never made it a good thing, nor exonerated those countries buying and using slaves.
    And when I saw this video I thought, you know Jim, you might have a point.


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