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Thread: Ireland / Northern Ireland border issues after Brexit

  1. #181
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    The current petition to leave the eu immediately without a deal makes interesting reading looking at the above map.

    Opinions in scotland and the 6 counties completely adrift of England yet again , and to a lesser degree the welsh.

    Anyone who thinks this polar opposite in opinion on the EU is going to be ignored and swept under the carpet whilst holding the uk together needs their heads examined.

    crack on boys and girls.......


    http://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting...etition=200165
    sing to me the history of my country. It is sweet to the soul to hear it. Flann Mac Lonain ( c.850-918 a.d)
    Alba gu brath An rud is fhiach a ghabhail, 's fhiach e iarraidh

  2. #182
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    Thought provoking article ( from july) i have just read on newsnet with regard to scotland , but can be equally applied to the 6 counties and wales regarding our status within this happy union of equals we have the misfortune to find ourselves in.

    It follows Stevlins line of thought , that scotland is a mere region of greater england ( uk ) and has no real power , as seen by our apparent constitutional powerlessness over brexit.

    The question asked , is scotland a colony?



    Anyone can see from recent events the constitutional powerlessness of Scotland as a nation, and how empty is any notion of Scottish sovereignty. Almost two-thirds of voters in Scotland opted to remain in the EU, a democratic decision totally ignored by Westminster. And the SNP were elected on a mandate to deliver a second independence referendum, securing a Scottish majority at Westminster and at Holyrood to back this up. Westminster simply chooses to ignore the democratic decisions of Scotland’s people. Despite the creation of a Scottish Parliament in 1999, the democratic deficit that that institution was supposed to end, remains.

    So, a ‘union of equals’ the UK is clearly not. Recent events suggest that, rather than being a sovereign nation and people, Scotland is more akin to a colony in that decisions taken by the Scottish people can simply be pushed aside by an ‘administering power’, which is Westminster and, in terms of voting power, Westminster is effectively England. There is therefore no ‘union’ to speak of, which now seems a charade, a pretext, implying that the term ‘unionist’ is also a misnomer. This therefore raises the serious question that, if there is no union as such, is Scotland a colony? This question can be relatively easily answered and the remainder of the article seeks to do just that.



    Reflecting its impatience with the administering Powers, the UN still refers to what it views as “the scourge of colonisation”, calling on member states, and notably the UK, to end this as soon as possible, and for them to be “on the right side of history” in such matters. To a large extent independence and decolonisation are therefore one and the same. Relevant here to Scotland’s present situation is the fact that the UN considers Ireland to be a ‘former colony’; this further indicates that Scotland may indeed be little different given that Ireland was likewise at one time deemed to be a part of the UK ‘union’.

    Full or partial political control

    It seems indisputable from recent events that Westminster (i.e. England) controls Scotland politically and is therefore in effect Scotland’s ‘administering power’. This ‘political control’ is evident whichever party is in power in Westminster, as they can do as they wish with Scotland, despite having few (if any) MP’s elected in Scotland. The Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government are merely devolved ‘creatures’ created by Westminster, with limited powers, which in any case can be overruled by the administering power, as the recent Supreme Court decision confirmed.

    The Scottish people may vote however they wish, but their decisions in referenda and national elections can be ignored and overruled by the administering power, as we have now seen to be the case on numerous occasions. Any perceived sovereignty of the Scottish people does not exist within the current ‘arrangement’ as Scottish sovereignty is not recognized by the administrative Power, the latter considering any sovereignty over Scotland’s territory and people to reside only with Westminster. The administrative power may claim Scotland has representation via a supposed ‘union’, however, in practice the administrative Power ultimately controls the politics of Scotland irrespective of democratic decisions made by Scots. Scotland is therefore in the exact same position Ireland was prior to the latter’s independence, when Ireland was also part of the ‘union’, whilst post-independence the UN considers Ireland to be a ‘former colony’.

    Scotland is therefore under the full or partial control of an administering Power (England), and hence meets this initial defining feature of a colony.

    http://newsnet.scot/archive/brexit-v...ountry-colony/


    More than 80 former colonies comprising some 750 million people have gained independence since the creation of the United Nations. At present, 17 Non-Self-Governing Territories (NSGTs) across the globe remain to be decolonised. Thus, the process of decolonisation has come a long way but is not yet ended. Finishing the job involves a continuing dialogue among the administering Powers, the UN Special Committee on Decolonisation, and the peoples of the territories involved, in accordance with the relevant UN resolutions on decolonisation.

    Based on this analysis the answer to the initial question posed undoubtedly appears to be yes; that is, Scotland demonstrates the essential features of a colony. Scotland is clearly subject to full or partial political control by another country; Scotland has been and continues to be occupied by significant numbers of ‘settlers’, and; Scotland is exploited economically by the administering Power.

    Playing devils advocate here , if stevlin is indeed correct and scotland and the 6 counties are part of the uk who must bow to the greater wishes of the electorate in England , then as professor baird states , Scotland demonstrates the essential features of a colony that is being exploited , just like Ireland , america , india and many more were , by the administering foreign power centred at westminster.
    sing to me the history of my country. It is sweet to the soul to hear it. Flann Mac Lonain ( c.850-918 a.d)
    Alba gu brath An rud is fhiach a ghabhail, 's fhiach e iarraidh

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    The uk becomes a homogenous society when it suits , like when you attempt to sideline the scottish irish and welsh nations and how they vote on respective issues as irrelevant to the wishes of the larger electorate in england , like you are doing over brexit.
    Really? Then why did you claim that I stated it??? Yet another of your lies Thomas...

    The idea the uk has just one electorate is also a nonsense , You dont get to vote on independence referendums , or scottish local and national elections .
    You are still talking rubbish. The UK has one electorate pertinent to a UK reference .... whereas, those UK entities that have an additional expensive tier of governance to oversee devolved issues , or if you like, non-UK issues have their own electorate. You really do have trouble with understanding simple concepts Thomas, as you continually demonstrate.
    See above , my point exactly...
    'Exactness' , is not a characteristic that is appropriate with your generally asinine postings
    It does indeed , with the caveat that the EU as you know , recognises the devolved nations and the commission has an office in Edinburgh
    And yet the EU has stated that the Scots would have to apply for membership of the EU if they were ever to become independent....and, have a closer look at the 'Catalan' issue Thomas......
    ...but wether the uk holds the membership of the eu or not , it still doesnt solve the various problems that i have given some examples of in taking scotland and the 6 counties out of the eu.
    Where have I ever claimed that there are not problems to be solved because of Brexit??

    No the word you used was legislative primacy , stop trying to subtly change the goal posts in an argument you could train a chimp to understand but which you remain willfully blind to the point i am making.
    Actually, it was two words - and that is what the UK will regain after Brexit....we aren't talking of 'devolved' issues Thomas - do try and keep up....Why don't you get a chimp to explain it to you?

    The westminster parliament hasnt always had legislative primacy over the uk and its precedent the kingdom of England which included Ireland and wales.

    There has been various fudges and forms of devolution used to control Ireland and wales that didnt involve westminster having legislative primacy over these two countries that long pre dated England in its uk guise joining the EU.

    Wales was run as a separate entity outwith the control of westminster until 1536 , and now obviously has regained a measure of control since 1999 which so far you havent caught up with.

    Ireland was also a separate entity run completely outwith westminsters control until 1801 , and since the 26 county independence , the 6 counties you "retained" have had measures of "devolution since the 1920`s ,again long pre dating eu membership.

    Leaving the eu only restores legislative primacy in all areas in ENGLAND ONLY because of devolution , something you seem to be struggling to grasp after nigh on twenty years Its not MY parliament stevlin ,the two parliaments i hold allegiance to and support are in Edinburgh and Brussels.
    It IS indeed YOUR Parliament Thomas, whether you like it or not....but you are fortunate, (or unfortunate - depending on the outcome of various rulings), to have more than one.....

    You are as usual, wrong about the UK .... Until the UK joined the EEC, which morphed into the EU, the Westminster Parliament had legislative primacy. Don't forget Thomas, when Scotland and Wales were independent, there WAS NO UK....................

    Nevertheless, thank you for providing me with great amusement Thomas, and I truly wish you and yours, all the very best for Christmas and the new year......and I certainly would not be upset if your dearest wish for independence came true....all the best Thomas.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    It follows Stevlins line of thought , that scotland is a mere region of greater england ( uk ) and has no real power , as seen by our apparent constitutional powerlessness over brexit.
    Oh do stop telling lies Thomas....even that trained chimp you referred to would know that Scotland is a region,
    ( and indeed a country), in the UK....and that chimp at least would be able to understand that, and confirm to you that I have never claimed otherwise....

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    Errr....Farage , the head brexiter himself , said he wouldnt accept defeat if the result went against him so why should we?.
    Actually, interviewed at 10pm as the polls closed Farage said "the vote looks close and he was not sure it would go his way. By 6am the next morning, as the white haired one who does question time admitted with a face that had just sucked sixteen lemons, "britain was leaving the EU" and he had a rather more positive grin ...
    --
    "The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

    Lord Clyde: "Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services V Inland Revenue, 1929"

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnofgwent View Post
    Actually, interviewed at 10pm as the polls closed Farage said "the vote looks close and he was not sure it would go his way. By 6am the next morning, as the white haired one who does question time admitted with a face that had just sucked sixteen lemons, "britain was leaving the EU" and he had a rather more positive grin ...
    None of which has anything to do with the fact that he said he would not accept a 52-48 result against Leave.
    It's amazing how common this narcissism is: I disagree with person A, and I also disagree with person B, therefore A and B are identical - Daniel Hannan

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