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Thread: UKIP's deputy leader defends anti-Islam candidate's leadership bid

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaymondDelauney View Post
    And there's the problem, right there: You evidently haven't yet hauled in that it's only a tiny minority who haven't"integrated". If you choose to believe otherwise, then you probably also live in fear that your own friends, neighbours, work colleagues, medics, teachers, coppers and anyone else who you deem to be a muslim are just biding their time - they're actually not your friends at all, but are really wanting to slaughter us all in our beds and usher in a Wahhabist caliphate...
    Bunkham! Of all minority religious and/or ethnic groups the least integrated and the one which works tirelessly at remaining un-integrated is Islam and its followers. Living relatively peacefully in our midst and enjoying the privileges which our society provides, while privately largely rejecting the very structure of our society and living in ghettos is not integration. It is indeed the antithesis of integration. Recognising this does not even begin to justify the somewhat ridiculous scenario you outline. The reality is that it is a tiny minority who have integrated.

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  3. #12
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    I take it you don't have many muslim friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaymondDelauney View Post
    And there's the problem, right there: You evidently haven't yet hauled in that it's only a tiny minority who haven't"integrated". ..
    Balls.

    I don't know who you were talking to when you were living in the the East End, but I have met third generation Bangladesis who can't speak English.

    As far as the average Tower Hamlets Muslim is concerned, integration means their children are served Hallal meat for their free school dinners and they accept benefit payments in pounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaymondDelauney View Post
    And there's the problem, right there: You evidently haven't yet hauled in that it's only a tiny minority who haven't"integrated". If you choose to believe otherwise, then you probably also live in fear that your own friends, neighbours, work colleagues, medics, teachers, coppers and anyone else who you deem to be a muslim are just biding their time - they're actually not your friends at all, but are really wanting to slaughter us all in our beds and usher in a Wahhabist caliphate...
    You really do seem to live in some parallell world. I have worked with, tried to integrate with Moslems and introduce them to western values, but they have rejcted OUR way of life, while demanding everything they can get. So, no they don't integrate or assimilate. Islam has no right to dictate their misogynistic and barbaric cultish life style upon us. So my answer is very straightforward. Get out of Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaymondDelauney View Post
    I take it you don't have many muslim friends.
    That is true and, before you draw another one of your erroneous if imaginative conclusions, that is not because I am not prepared to compromise and meet individual muslims halfway, but because I refuse to become an apologist for my own culture as so many of the liberal left are prone to do.

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    As far as I am aware two of my mates are muslims. Two that have ever mentioned it.
    Religion however is not a topic I often discuss with people at all. I'm not religiously inclined myself, so it doesn't come up. Like attracts like.

    I have some Tower Hamlets mates, but their religion has never come up.
    I also have some muslim family I expect. Egyptians. But again, their religion has never come up.

    My two muslims mates.
    One is a Yardy type. Black fella from the Carribean and local crime family.
    He served in the Army and if he's a Muslim then then Muslims are OK by me.

    My other mate, **** fella. He is born and raised British.
    Good candidate for the first **** James Bond.

    Not all his family speak English, but he does.

    Now both these chaps are fully integrated.
    I will kick your arse if you **** with them. And vice versa.

    When I go to Birmingham, what I see there on the other hand is ghettoization.
    And it's weird.
    Muslims recruiting in the streets. Beardy weirdies.
    White guys dressed up as Imams and doing the Jehovahs Witness thing at the Bull Ring, and Muslims areas of town. Sort of like Brixton only asian not black.

    Because in my own personal life my two overtly Muslim mates, are in every way integrated socially, I don't really have a bad impression of Muslims at all. If you say Muslim, the first image that springs into my mind is Mohammad Ali.

    Directly followed by a suicide bomber.

    I don't really care what your religion is. I just don't. I'm sorry.

    I went to religious schools. I prayed and sung every day for 11 years and by the end of it I bloody hated religion.
    I blamed it for a lot of evils in the world. I didn't know any Muslims in those days, it wasn't on my RADAR but the things we say about Muslims today, I was saying about Christians yesterday. Medieval. Religion of hate etc.

    I don't think religion, any religion is a religion of hate. I don't think religion, any religion, is bad thing for society. I think they are all good.

    Not liking immigrants is an entirely natural response to immigration.
    Immigration is an entirely bad thing for social cohesion, (edit) it is really that simple.

    So once you open that can of worms, it's a can of worms.

    To me I think certain elements of our society advocate for immigration, not because they want immigration but because they wish to rebel against those people who advocate against it.
    So if you hate the working class, if you are a snob. There is an element of poking your enemies involved.

    An opportunity to sneer at others who are beneath you and hence peck you own way further up the social ladder, by pecking them further down it. Holier than thou.
    These people deeply suck and I prefer racists to them. I would rather be a racist, than one of them.
    Last edited by RaymondDelauney; 13-08-2017 at 11:59 AM. Reason: Offensive racial epithets / statement

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    That is true and, before you draw another one of your erroneous if imaginative conclusions, that is not because I am not prepared to compromise and meet individual muslims halfway, but because I refuse to become an apologist for my own culture as so many of the liberal left are prone to do.
    I'm afraid I can't actually remember any instance where I've either "compromised" or been expected to be an "apologist for my own culture". In fact, "culture" rarely gets a mention. In our apartment block, I'm pretty sure we're the only "white" people. From day to day - so long as I stay on L'Ile Saint-Denis - I might only see a handful of people who (one assumes) aren't muslim. Yet "culture" and "religion" never really get a mention, beyond my ongoing twin moans about the racket from the person who plays the muezzin's call for prayer from his/her apartment window on a speaker that wouldn't make the grade in an icecream van and the bloody church bells that are too close and too frequent.

    So far, this morning (coffee and papers down the Bar Tabac), the conversation has been of gunshots heard last night (no explanation - presumably on the mainland), roadworks closing access to one of the bridges (general moan), "Les Taggers" (graffiti vandals) and how "Le Meilleur Patissier" differs from "The Great British Bake Off" (it's got better judges). All pretty dull: No "religion" and no "apologizing for my culture", I'm afraid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    That is true and, before you draw another one of your erroneous if imaginative conclusions, that is not because I am not prepared to compromise and meet individual muslims halfway, but because I refuse to become an apologist for my own culture as so many of the liberal left are prone to do.
    Liberal left apologists rarely live in non integrated ghettos, unless you can call Islington or Hampstead ghettos. They tend to live in their own bubbles, insulated from reality, or where they are exposed to it, prefer to look past or make excuses for non integration. Because to accept legitimate criticism of Islam and Muslims is to admit that so called "multiculturalism" has failed and failed badly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Delauney
    Yet "culture" and "religion" never really get a mention
    As if any committed and hardcore Muslim is likely to truthfully discuss Islam with someone like you. I assume that now you are a moderator you'll stop hiding behind the ignore button and respond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaymondDelauney View Post
    I'm afraid I can't actually remember any instance where I've either "compromised" or been expected to be an "apologist for my own culture". In fact, "culture" rarely gets a mention. In our apartment block, I'm pretty sure we're the only "white" people. From day to day - so long as I stay on L'Ile Saint-Denis - I might only see a handful of people who (one assumes) aren't muslim. Yet "culture" and "religion" never really get a mention, beyond my ongoing twin moans about the racket from the person who plays the muezzin's call for prayer from his/her apartment window on a speaker that wouldn't make the grade in an icecream van and the bloody church bells that are too close and too frequent.

    So far, this morning (coffee and papers down the Bar Tabac), the conversation has been of gunshots heard last night (no explanation - presumably on the mainland), roadworks closing access to one of the bridges (general moan), "Les Taggers" (graffiti vandals) and how "Le Meilleur Patissier" differs from "The Great British Bake Off" (it's got better judges). All pretty dull: No "religion" and no "apologizing for my culture", I'm afraid.
    I was referring predominantly to UK society. However if you fail to recognise that there is not an appreciably greater problem in France with violent Islamic demonstrations, vehicle burnings and attacks then I can only draw the conclusion that you are wondering around with your eyes shut, your fingers in your ears singing 'lalalalala' at the top of your lungs. There is little point in attempting to pursue a conversation with someone in denial.

    I suppose, like Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbot, you consider Venezuela a fine example of a just, democratic and successful socialist state as well.


    https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9...e-islamization

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    ...problem in France with violent Islamic demonstrations...
    Islam - ist. Nothing to do with the muslims I meet every day, either in France or Britain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    I suppose, like Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbot, you consider Venezuela a fine example of a just, democratic and successful socialist state as well.
    Au contraire. Once a country starts locking up its peaceful political opponents, it becomes a pariah state (same goes for Cuba, imo). Mr Corbyn is as wrong in failing to crticize the "government" there (because that seems pretty illegitimate now, too) as Mr Trump is in not singling out the white supremacists in Charlottesville.
    Last edited by RaymondDelauney; 13-08-2017 at 05:52 PM.

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