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Thread: We need a fairer voting system, but how?

  1. #1
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    We need a fairer voting system, but how?

    In 2015 the General election results gave us the following results using the FPTP system:
    Cons 36.9% 330 seats
    Lab 30.4% 232 seats
    UKIP 12.6% 1 seat
    LibDem 7.9% 8 seats
    SNP 4.7% 56 seats

    If these results were proportional to the popular vote we would have:
    Con 242
    Lab 199
    UKIP 82
    LibDem 51
    SNP 31
    Greens 24

    When we were given a referendum on the Alternative Vote system in 2011, the result was clear, 2:1 against it.

    There was no surprise, as the system proposed was not a true PR system.

    The only fair way to make every vote count is to vote for a party, not for a person. However this then makes it difficult to have a local MP who represents the electorate in every case, which is the major plus for FPTP. However people in safe seats will feel that their vote will count, where at present, it does not, for the minorities.

    If PR was in now, we would probably have a coalition government which tends to moderate the parties and can be a very good thing to prevent extremes. (Although if that was UKIP/Tory it could be further right than present)

    So, does anyone have a really good system which would provide a government based on what we vote for, rather than the terribly unfair FPTP which provided the SNP with 56 times the representation in parliament than the UKIP, whilst having only 37% of the voters that they had?

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    You answered your own question, and even explained why this country will never get the chance to vote in a Proportional Representation general election.

    First past the post and government changes of constituency borders, ensures the survival of the status quo, and the game of musical chairs that is our general elections.

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    We have a gentlemen's agreement with UKIP,Direct Democracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    In 2015 the General election results gave us the following results using the FPTP system:
    Cons 36.9% 330 seats
    Lab 30.4% 232 seats
    UKIP 12.6% 1 seat
    LibDem 7.9% 8 seats
    SNP 4.7% 56 seats

    If these results were proportional to the popular vote we would have:
    Con 242
    Lab 199
    UKIP 82
    LibDem 51
    SNP 31
    Greens 24

    That assumes that people would vote for the same party if there were proportional representation. Personally I doubt it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lankou View Post
    That assumes that people would vote for the same party if there were proportional representation. Personally I doubt it.
    Yes, OK. You make a good point, it would reduce the incidence of "tactical voting".
    That would also be part of making every vote count.

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    I think I have mentioned this before but I would suggest a combination of FPTP and PR . Make the wards bigger maybe accounting for two thirds of the seats then the other third could be made up through PR .

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    The only way to make every vote count is to vote for a party, not for a person.
    We already do.

    My local MP represent Labour interest in a Labour constituency. She is harmless enough, but she could roast babies in Camden High Street and still not lose any votes.

    Similarly, my brother's local MP surprised his constituents by getting up to all manner of shenanigans with young ladies and exotic opiates. The general feeling was that he was a disgusting old git, but he was a conservative in a conservative seat and was easily re-elected.

    The rough rule of thumb is that the MP is worth about 500 votes, which is not much when you consider that most constituencies have between 70,000 and 80,000 constituents.

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    I'd like to elect policy makers and happier to appoint policy reviewers, but elect them too ,is also good enough.
    In short, Lawmakers elected in a traditional democratic method.

    And then for policy to be voted through by all of us. By either online pole or telephone dial in.
    I do not wish to be represented any more.
    Those days are over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baff View Post
    I'd like to elect policy makers and happier to appoint policy reviewers, but elect them too ,is also good enough.
    In short, Lawmakers elected in a traditional democratic method.

    And then for policy to be voted through by all of us. By either online pole or telephone dial in.
    I do not wish to be represented any more.
    Those days are over.
    One cannot rush these things,why rush when we can take our time and stroll over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    In 2015 the General election results gave us the following results using the FPTP system:
    Cons 36.9% 330 seats
    Lab 30.4% 232 seats
    UKIP 12.6% 1 seat
    LibDem 7.9% 8 seats
    SNP 4.7% 56 seats

    If these results were proportional to the popular vote we would have:
    Con 242
    Lab 199
    UKIP 82
    LibDem 51
    SNP 31
    Greens 24

    When we were given a referendum on the Alternative Vote system in 2011, the result was clear, 2:1 against it.
    There was no surprise, as the system proposed was not a true PR system.

    The only fair way to make every vote count is to vote for a party, not for a person. However this then makes it difficult to have a local MP who represents the electorate in every case, which is the major plus for FPTP. However people in safe seats will feel that their vote will count, where at present, it does not, for the minorities.

    If PR was in now, we would probably have a coalition government which tends to moderate the parties and can be a very good thing to prevent extremes. (Although if that was UKIP/Tory it could be further right than present)

    So, does anyone have a really good system which would provide a government based on what we vote for, rather than the terribly unfair FPTP which provided the SNP with 56 times the representation in parliament than the UKIP, whilst having only 37% of the voters that they had?
    Well, the German system is fairer. They have two votes. One for FPTP and one for PR.

    The largest two parties receive more votes in FPTP and the smaller parties receive more in PR, people are more likely to vote positively with PR, there are more parties that are viable, it leads to coalitions which usually end up with a decent amount of compromise.

    However I've also been thinking how a system where you simply vote for individual departments. Imagine voting for education. The education department basically asks for however much money they want, you pay part of your taxes directly to education. The same for healthcare, infrastructure etc, so people have to be more up on what they want for individual departments.

    Right now you have the Tories destroying health and education, then you had Labour letting in loads of immigrants. Surely it'd make sense to have different departments making decisions, rather than having one govt doing half right and half wrong, and then being replaced by another party doing half right and half wrong.

    However I'm not so convinced this would work better.

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