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Thread: Rejection of Christianity in Britain is leading to a breakdown in society

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov View Post
    The other observation is that it is leading to a poorer society as well. I'm well aware of the academic debates you all like to participate in as to whether there is really a god or not, but being scientifically-minded, I take my information from observation. My observations indicate to me that this so-called liberalisation is bad, and it is essentially the idea that one is no longer bound by moral principle. That is not liberating, although it would superficially appear to be so. There are several things Christianity gives us, and I'll go through them.

    Firstly there is this idea of hope. We like to be able to trust in people and live in a world where things are positive. If you don't have hope then you'll end up very miserable and not be enjoying yourself. It's a positive frame of mind, in that we feel that we can achieve what we set out to do and nothing nasty will happen.

    Another aspect is social cohesion. I went to a C of E middle school and it really did feel local and friendly, where everyone knew each other and since we all held the basic values of Christianity we had a bond, or a friendship between others. No one felt lonely or like committing suicide because there were always those who could help.

    Now once you have all of this, you find you can work together better, where there are no nasty disagreements and the trust and honesty means one can just focus their efforts on being productive. There's no need for CCTV and security staff in every Christian firm. Just think about how much economic inefficiency we have where everyone is trying to rip everyone else off, as it seems to be the case in mainstream commerce these days.

    Last but not least is the issue of reproduction and families. I'm firmly of the view that people who are brought up under unstable conditions tend to develop criminal mentalities. You are welcome to check this if you don't believe me, but try it and see. Find out from those in prison who are professional crooks, just how they were brought up, and you'll nearly always see some obvious development issue, such as single mother with lots of boyfriends, or a family which were divorced and so on. Rejecting Christianity is leading to a rejection of all aspect of it, and this is a serious one.

    Coupled with that is the seedy type of society which replaces it, where sex is sold on the street and sex is sold with all manner of products, essentially to con the punter, so I suppose due to its abuse you end up with men who see women as Winston Smith saw women in the 1984 book, i.e. evil state busybodies, who could shop you to the thought police at a moment's notice. I think we are currently moving into that phase now, where the evil and corrupt system is using women to do its dirty work for it, because women can be exploited. Traditionally a woman would obey her husband, but in this dystopian world which replaces Christianity we see abuse at every turn. It's quite clear to me that all of this put together will eventually lead to the complete destruction of our society/race or whatever you call it. That'll be like the Old Testament all over again. We do come from a very brutal past, and we could easily end up back there.

    Oh and if you want proof, then examine history in Britain from the 4th century to about 1900. That's when we had Christianity. It took a few centuries to do its thing mind, as by the 11th & 12th century kind of period it was still pretty barbaric, but it made headway after that and led to a country which literally ruled the world. By about 1950 this power was noticeably slipping from our fingers. We rose and we fell. Anyway consider what great wisdom caused us to be top of the world and literally centuries ahead of most of the rest of it. One thing you can not accuse it of is being is stupid. The monasteries where the universities of their day.

    The churches were all about control, and fear
    When I think back to the 50s the church was the centre of everybody's life, and the vicar or priest pretty well controlled how people lived. When I was a boy it was Sunday school on Sunday morning, then the morning church service. Afternoon Sunday school and finally evening service. Social activities were all organised around the church
    There were just as many horrific crimes, and many single mothers had to raise their family alone after their husbands were killed in the war. Poverty was worse than it is today
    I think that society is better educated since then which has led to questions about religion, it's uses, and values

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  3. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by T00ts View Post

    Matt. 5:21-22, Matt. 19:18, Rev. 21:8
    Interesting T00ts,
    Matthew 5:21-22 says "“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgement.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgement. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire."
    Everyone is in danger of judgement who commits murder, and everyone who says "You fool" or is angry with his brother also in similar danger.
    There's nothing here that says murder or any other sin is not forgivable. In fact Romans 10, 11-13 says:
    For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
    Matthew 19:18 says: He said to Him, “Which ones?”Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’
    So, if you are citing that as unforgivable sin, so is adultery and theft and perjury.
    Revelation 21:8 says: But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
    This clearly refers to unrepentant sinners, unbelievers. However if you are citing this as evidence of unforgivable sins, then the rest of that list would have to be included.
    As for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit may I suggest you read this:
    https://www.gotquestions.org/blasphemy-Holy-Spirit.html
    John 3:16 does not mention any unforgivable sins.
    Do you think Moses will not enter the Kingdom of heaven, how about King David? Both were murderers.

  4. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Interesting T00ts,
    Matthew 5:21-22 says "“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgement.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgement. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire."
    Everyone is in danger of judgement who commits murder, and everyone who says "You fool" or is angry with his brother also in similar danger.
    There's nothing here that says murder or any other sin is not forgivable. In fact Romans 10, 11-13 says:
    For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
    Matthew 19:18 says: He said to Him, “Which ones?”Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’
    So, if you are citing that as unforgivable sin, so is adultery and theft and perjury.
    Revelation 21:8 says: But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
    This clearly refers to unrepentant sinners, unbelievers. However if you are citing this as evidence of unforgivable sins, then the rest of that list would have to be included.
    As for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit may I suggest you read this:
    https://www.gotquestions.org/blasphemy-Holy-Spirit.html
    John 3:16 does not mention any unforgivable sins.
    Do you think Moses will not enter the Kingdom of heaven, how about King David? Both were murderers.
    I think you are mixing up 2 different things. It is true that we will all be saved no matter what. The whole point of the plan is that after the battle of Heaven all those who fought on Jesus' side were given the opportunity for mortal life so that we should learn the difference between good and evil. On death we return to wait for His judgement of our lives. Jesus through His atonement took away eternal death and will stand as our advocate before God on judgement day.

    I believe that we are unable to even begin to comprehend how those judgements will be made but one thing for sure, God is just. Certain individuals have been ordained to commit certain actions in mortal life in order to bring about God's plans and presumably will be judged accordingly. Others have transgressed even though deep in their hearts they knew it was wrong. All these things will be taken into account and yes repentance is paramount. We simply do not have sufficient capability to understand yet. The fact that we use in this life only a small portion of the brain lends itself to the notion that there is a lot more to come.

    If my belief proves to be true then I suspect all of us would wish to live for eternity with Him, but the 'Hell' for many will be the knowledge that they could have lived better. Nothing unclean can dwell with the Father in Heaven, thus there are many mansions.

    I gave you basic Bible references, a book which I believe as far as it is correctly translated. Jesus taught in a way that people of that time would understand, but revelation is continuous, and there is some very interesting reading out there which goes far in explaining God's word. After all if we accept that God has always communicated through Prophets then why would we imagine that He would have stopped?
    You've only failed when you've stopped! xx

  5. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLuc View Post
    The churches were all about control, and fear
    When I think back to the 50s the church was the centre of everybody's life, and the vicar or priest pretty well controlled how people lived. When I was a boy it was Sunday school on Sunday morning, then the morning church service. Afternoon Sunday school and finally evening service. Social activities were all organised around the church
    There were just as many horrific crimes, and many single mothers had to raise their family alone after their husbands were killed in the war. Poverty was worse than it is today
    I think that society is better educated since then which has led to questions about religion, it's uses, and values
    I think you will find the crime rate has increased much faster than the population. You can get a table of figures for all categories of crime for the last 150 years. It's interesting reading.

    I agree the poverty was worse. The 50s came after two world wars. Destruction leads to poverty.
    The writers against religion, whilst they oppose every system, are wisely careful never to set up any of their own - Edmund Burke

  6. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Interesting T00ts,
    Matthew 5:21-22 says "“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgement.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgement. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire."
    Everyone is in danger of judgement who commits murder, and everyone who says "You fool" or is angry with his brother also in similar danger.
    There's nothing here that says murder or any other sin is not forgivable. In fact Romans 10, 11-13 says:
    For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
    Matthew 19:18 says: He said to Him, “Which ones?”Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’
    So, if you are citing that as unforgivable sin, so is adultery and theft and perjury.
    Revelation 21:8 says: But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
    This clearly refers to unrepentant sinners, unbelievers. However if you are citing this as evidence of unforgivable sins, then the rest of that list would have to be included.
    As for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit may I suggest you read this:
    https://www.gotquestions.org/blasphemy-Holy-Spirit.html
    John 3:16 does not mention any unforgivable sins.
    Do you think Moses will not enter the Kingdom of heaven, how about King David? Both were murderers.
    And all the people said, "his blood be on our hands and those of our children." Mathew 27

    One part of The Passion of the Christ that does not appear in the English subtitles.

  7. #186
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    In other words the people of Judea murdered Christ, not the Romans.

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