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Thread: US and EU expand sanctions on Russia

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob001 View Post
    If Russia is a weak country, then there will be chaos and a great crime. In Russia, many nuclear weapons. What if terrorists steal a nuclear bomb? Why do we need a weak Russia? We need a strong and friendly Russia.
    No, Russia IS a weak country. It's GDP is less than Britain, France, Italy and Germany. It's entire economy is geared to selling one product to two markets. All you have is oil and nothing else. You have nothing to offer the world at all. Your universities are appauling, your life expectancy a a joke and the only reason Ukrain is happening now is because Russia lacks anything attractive to the outside world so has to secure it's authority through violence.
    “Down there are people who will follow any dragon, worship any god, ignore any inequity, all out of a kind of humdrum, everyday badness. Not the really high, creative loathsomeness of the great sinners, but a sort of mass-produced darkness of the soul. Sin, you might say, without a trace of originality. They accept evil not because they say yes, but because they don't say no."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Goodfellow View Post
    No, Russia IS a weak country. It's GDP is less than Britain, France, Italy and Germany. It's entire economy is geared to selling one product to two markets. All you have is oil and nothing else. You have nothing to offer the world at all. Your universities are appauling, your life expectancy a a joke and the only reason Ukrain is happening now is because Russia lacks anything attractive to the outside world so has to secure it's authority through violence.
    I speak on behalf of the UK. I was in Russia and I know that Russia can offer more than just oil. Do not forget who first went into space. It was Yuri Gagarin. Today, Americans fly into space on Russian rockets. Russia has a lot to offer the world. The main thing to treat Russia as a friend and not as an enemy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevectaylor View Post
    The BBC reports President Barack Obama says new, co-ordinated sanctions from the US and EU will continue to make Russia's "weak economy even weaker".
    No. Russia will become even stronger. Sanctions will be cleared of Russian oligarchs. The sanctions will make Russia more independent. You have to understand that the sanctions would weaken the UK and hit the people. We could lose a huge market for goods. Russia - this is a very big market. We need to act in their own interests, something to become stronger. Sorry, but today David Cameron, like a little dog, Barack Obama.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcherry View Post
    And , Hello , to you also .
    If by "servant " you actually meant , close ally , similarly disposed and /or partner in defined areas --- then I might understand you better .
    Your phrase , "servant" is literally nonsense .
    As for your view over the role and strength of sanctions , it depends what track records your analysts and commentators have . I suspect your view is coloured by the lack of what you see as immediate results .
    However , there are many different ways to apply sanctions and the ones presently applied are excellent medium and long term actions which can achieve huge economic destruction for an already troubled State like Russia .
    And if we suffer somewhat also , so what ?
    Do you not imagine that this has not been factored into the overall long term analysis ?

    LOL: Russia holds a trump card, as a last resort Putin could turn off the gas. I think Germany which is 40% gas dependant on Russia and France not far behind they will tread very carefully before falling for the dolt Cameron's call for a cavalry charge against Russia.. The photo opportunity vain glorious idiot is up the front wanting to send British troops into the Baltic states and Poland after decimating the the military with his cuts. All this crap he spouts is for British voter consumption he never stops talking out if his a***. He so desperate to be photographed he organised a flying visit to Eastbourne a Lib Dem marginal to view the pier promising funds to repair the damage, himself and boy Osborne posing in front of the burnt out shell . In his desperation there are also rumours he is thinking of doing a an electoral deal with UKIP, I'm not sure how this would work but he's so manic it wouldn't surprise me. Lets hope his desperation to win will expose him as the opportunist he is.
    Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"

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    Quote Originally Posted by cromwell View Post
    But didn't they tell us all those years ago that with the fall of the soviet union Russia was no longer a problem,now they worry there's a remote threat to the baltic states and we are to send 1400 troops to Poland for exercises.If anyone thinks Russia are fazed by these sanctions they are deluding themselves,this will only make putin more popular at home.
    I don't trust putin but the problems in Ukraine have been caused by six of one and half a dozen of the other.

    I would hazard a guess that the CIA had a hand in the outing of the pro Soviet Ukrainian President. Their aim has always been to extend NATO presence in all of the ex Soviet states. It's the old cold war scenario. With the overthrow of communism the US financial wheeler dealers saw major opportunities to make money out of a chaotic leaderless Russia. Putin eventually put a stop to their game. Putin is an autocrat, but after the humiliation the Russians went through in the wake of Yeltsin's drunken rule they welcomed Putin.After this fiasco, and at the present moment, he is unassailable in Russia. The problem will be the close proximity of NATO and nuclear weapons pointing towards Russia. Instead of making these states a nuclear free buffer zone between the West and Russia the Americans are hell bent on pushing Putin and Russia to a corner.

    Putin and Russians are in their own way allies in the world fight against Moslem fanatics who are far more lethal and dangerous than anyone else on the planet, and the biggest threat to the west. The Russians are also victims of the insane acts of Moslem lunatic zealots they are the common enemy. The West should be more circumspect when dealing with Russia and Putin and refrain from juvenile belligerent actions and get their priorities right. Russia has chosen it's leader and it's for the Russian people to change the present political set up.
    Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob001 View Post
    I speak on behalf of the UK. I was in Russia and I know that Russia can offer more than just oil. Do not forget who first went into space. It was Yuri Gagarin. Today, Americans fly into space on Russian rockets. Russia has a lot to offer the world. The main thing to treat Russia as a friend and not as an enemy.

    Russia can offer next to nothing .
    Outside of Oil , Gas , Wood and Aluminium there is very little else .If you travel round this failed state all you will see is third world poverty and a rotting infrastructure -- exclude city centres where the failing banks still glint in the sun .
    My father used to have some remarkable idea what Russia was like -- gleaned from Tribune and the blindness of fellow travellers .
    When I told him what it was really like , he refused point black to listen .
    And yes , I have travelled the length and breadth . Many times . And probably over a longer period than you have lived .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expounder View Post
    Putin and Russians are in their own way allies in the world fight against Moslem fanatics who are far more lethal and dangerous than anyone else on the planet
    I agree with almost everything in that posting, but the above is completely and utterly wrong, and demonstrably so. Putin and his allied goons proved to be mass-murderous criminals in Chechnya far in excess of anything Muslims pulled off, and that doesn't even begin to compare to the US's and the UK's war on Iraq, the fallout of which in the whole region we'll see for many years to come in aspects ranging from hundreds of thousands of kids killed by DU munition to power vacuums inviting war lords to establish their rule. Frankly, "Moslem fanatics ... far more lethal and dangerous than anyone else on the planet"? I can't even being to understand how you managed to type that in the light of recent history, Expounder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olde Europe View Post
    I agree with almost everything in that posting, but the above is completely and utterly wrong, and demonstrably so. Putin and his allied goons proved to be mass-murderous criminals in Chechnya far in excess of anything Muslims pulled off, and that doesn't even begin to compare to the US's and the UK's war on Iraq, the fallout of which in the whole region we'll see for many years to come in aspects ranging from hundreds of thousands of kids killed by DU munition to power vacuums inviting war lords to establish their rule. Frankly, "Moslem fanatics ... far more lethal and dangerous than anyone else on the planet"? I can't even being to understand how you managed to type that in the light of recent history, Expounder.

    The Chechnans separatists are basically fundamentalist Islamists on Russia's border. There were bloody conflicts in which the Russians gave no quarter, neither did the the Chechens. Chechen Islamic rebels tried to export their fundamentalism into Dagistan to extend their their version of a fundamentalist Islamic state. When they didn't succeed and were subdued undertook a series of indiscriminate terrorist attacks within Russia which threat continues today these facts are already well documented. I personally would not apologise for the fact that I consider the immediate threat to life and limb to all non fundamentalists throughout the world stems in various forms of Al-Qaeda


    And I might add both Russia and the west are targets for terrorist attacks from Al-Qaeda and their off shoots which makes security co-operation between the two parties on this particular question sensible.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/416586.stm
    Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olde Europe View Post
    I agree with almost everything in that posting, but the above is completely and utterly wrong, and demonstrably so. Putin and his allied goons proved to be mass-murderous criminals in Chechnya far in excess of anything Muslims pulled off, and that doesn't even begin to compare to the US's and the UK's war on Iraq, the fallout of which in the whole region we'll see for many years to come in aspects ranging from hundreds of thousands of kids killed by DU munition to power vacuums inviting war lords to establish their rule. Frankly, "Moslem fanatics ... far more lethal and dangerous than anyone else on the planet"? I can't even being to understand how you managed to type that in the light of recent history, Expounder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Expounder View Post
    The Chechnans separatists are basically fundamentalist Islamists on Russia's border. There were bloody conflicts in which the Russians gave no quarter, neither did the the Chechens. Chechen Islamic rebels tried to export their fundamentalism into Dagistan to extend their their version of a fundamentalist Islamic state. When they didn't succeed and were subdued undertook a series of indiscriminate terrorist attacks within Russia which threat continues today these facts are already well documented. I personally would not apologise for the fact that I consider the immediate threat to life and limb to all non fundamentalists throughout the world stems in various forms of Al-Qaeda


    And I might add both Russia and the west are targets for terrorist attacks from Al-Qaeda and their off shoots which makes security co-operation between the two parties on this particular question sensible.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/416586.stm
    Will the pair of you please knock off the CIA conspricay nonsense. You are as bad as Sampan. The reason this is all happening is simple. Europe is a better master than Russia. Do you honestly think sensible minds in Ukraine needed CIA pushing to convince them that being part of Europe is a better alternative than being under the Russian thumb? Seriously? I mean Europe has it's faults certainly but compared to Russia, in fact compared to every other place on Earth, Europe is a ****ing paradise. Europe is the worlds largest market with GDP higher than both China and the US. Combined we make more stuff than China, combined we make far more money than the US. Economically a choice between the EU and Russia is a complete no brainier. That alone would be enough to convince almost any country of the virtues of European membership but when it comes to the Ukraine simple economics takes second place to something far more important. Since 1775 the Ukrainian people have been under an almost permanent and bloody occupation by Russia (I say the Ukranian people deliberately because there has to be a distinction made between the ethnic Ukrainians (vast majority of population) and Russian emigrates). The statistics are appalling,every Ukrainian alive today will within two generations have a family member who was killed by the Russians. Then there is the not small fact that the Russian state kills people who don't tow the line. They kill journalists, lawyers, bankers and politicians.



    .
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Goodfellow View Post
    Will the pair of you please knock off the CIA conspricay nonsense. You are as bad as Sampan. The reason this is all happening is simple. Europe is a better master than Russia. Do you honestly think sensible minds in Ukraine needed CIA pushing to convince them that being part of Europe is a better alternative than being under the Russian thumb? Seriously? I mean Europe has it's faults certainly but compared to Russia, in fact compared to every other place on Earth, Europe is a ****ing paradise. Europe is the worlds largest market with GDP higher than both China and the US. Combined we make more stuff than China, combined we make far more money than the US. Economically a choice between the EU and Russia is a complete no brainier. That alone would be enough to convince almost any country of the virtues of European membership but when it comes to the Ukraine simple economics takes second place to something far more important. Since 1775 the Ukrainian people have been under an almost permanent and bloody occupation by Russia (I say the Ukranian people deliberately because there has to be a distinction made between the ethnic Ukrainians (vast majority of population) and Russian emigrates). The statistics are appalling,every Ukrainian alive today will within two generations have a family member who was killed by the Russians. Then there is the not small fact that the Russian state kills people who don't tow the line. They kill journalists, lawyers, bankers and politicians.



    .
    Europe a better master? By that. I presume you mean they are more refined in the way they treat the dissidents,it all depends whether you wish to be mastered or not but democratic it is not.Whoever prevails in Ukraine and I'm not sure it will be the eu backed Ukranian govt.Putin and Russia are going nowhere,we have a choice,to confront them or learn to deal and live with them,as we stand direct confrontation isn't an option unless there is a great rethink in Nato.
    The new parliamentary democracy,it's not the will of the people that counts but the will of 650......will come back to haunt them.

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