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Thread: Turkey being rocked by blowback?

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    Turkey being rocked by blowback?

    Strange things are going on in Turkey these days and the current protests very much par the course.

    What is clear is that Pro Secularists are very unhappy and it seems that the position of the Erdogan government over Syria could be the driver.
    Whatever else many Secular Turks may think of the Assad Government in Damascus, they do indeed appreciate that it is a secular state and one that has previously maintained stability along the Souther Turkish border for decades. The sight of an "Islamist Government in Ankara, working to replace a Secular Government in Syria and replace with a Radical Islamist one, appears to be too much to bear and resentment which has been reported as simmering over the last couple of years seems to be boiling over at last. Add to this of course the concern that Erdogan may be planning to use the spread of Political Islam along the borders to justify ditching the last vestiges of secularism at home.

    The final straws however may have been the bombings in Souther Turkey last week, which everybody realises where set off by Al-Qa'ida affiliates, plus the undoubted use of Chemical weapons by similar groups recently as well. The notion of the Erdogan government appearing unconcerned about the identity of the true perpetrators of the bombings, plus maybe even being complicit in them, has indeed crossed a very real red line in Turkish public opinion.

    A few years ago, Turkeys "Zero problems with the neighbours" policy was largely lauded around the world. The collapse of that policy into chaos bordering on farce, could easily seal this administrations fate.

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    Also while on the subject, a very shocking story which for some reason is not making the main News Bulletins over here.

    Toxic Warfare: Rebels caught with sarin gas amid Syria arms supply scandal - YouTube!

    They were caught in Turkey!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sampan View Post
    Also while on the subject, a very shocking story which for some reason is not making the main News Bulletins over here.

    Toxic Warfare: Rebels caught with sarin gas amid Syria arms supply scandal - YouTube!

    They were caught in Turkey!
    The "rebels" are scum, hired guns (or perhaps knives is a better term given the propensity for beheading and torture), rapists, lawless scum.

    As for Tukey - yes it is slowly falling into the hands of non-secular Muslims - a trend which has been visible for some time actually just not newsworthy in the UK or US.

    Given that there are some who desire to see Turkey become an EU member everyone in Britain should be under no illusuon what that would mean for UK society - a continuation of the growth of Islam, inbreeding, prostitution, people smuggling and gangs - all good stuff - just the society our forefathers strove for when the risked life and limb fighting that other brutal, inflexible ideology - Nazism.

    Harry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sampan View Post
    Also while on the subject, a very shocking story which for some reason is not making the main News Bulletins over here.

    Toxic Warfare: Rebels caught with sarin gas amid Syria arms supply scandal - YouTube!

    They were caught in Turkey!
    Maybe it isn't making the "main news bulletins" because it's being put put by Iran's Press TV and Russian Press Agencies each of which have their own agenda here and thus need to be considered as about as trustworthy as .. well the Americans who put out the "incubator babies" bollox to smear iraq over Kuwait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sampan View Post
    Also while on the subject, a very shocking story which for some reason is not making the main News Bulletins over here.

    Toxic Warfare: Rebels caught with sarin gas amid Syria arms supply scandal - YouTube!

    They were caught in Turkey!
    A report from a Russian news site, favouring a Russian ally. Hardly objective is it? Could it be it's not being reported elsewhere because it may not be true? It is possibility.

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    No I don't think so Don as it appears Lavrov has demanded Turkey give an explanation about the event.

    Moscow expects Turkey?s explanations for Syrian rebels? sarin ? Lavrov : The Voice of Russia: News, Breaking news, Politics, Economics, Business, Russia, International current events, Expert opinion, podcasts, Video

    Also a badly auto translated story from a Turkish news site

    JEJARING Syrian Rebels caught with Sarin in Turkey. Where is Erdogan?

    I also notice that a lot more sites are covering the story today than they were yesterday and these are starting to include some of the more heavyweight investigative indie sites. I am hoping Pepe or Bhadrakumar will pick it up over the next day or two and run the details.

    I would also point out that RT has a far better track record on reporting Syria than do the Western Networks and I clearly remember people rubbishing their warnings and evidence of Al-Qa'ida involvement two years ago when our networks were still spinning the peace loving democrats yarn.

    We are told that he story originally broke in local Turkish media, sadly though Its not a language I speak.

    It does look like deliberate suppression of an inconvenient truth to me.

    Quick update - just found the Zaman site and have their original story
    http://www.todayszaman.com/news-3169...for-adana.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sampan View Post
    Strange things are going on in Turkey these days and the current protests very much par the course.

    What is clear is that Pro Secularists are very unhappy and it seems that the position of the Erdogan government over Syria could be the driver.
    Whatever else many Secular Turks may think of the Assad Government in Damascus, they do indeed appreciate that it is a secular state and one that has previously maintained stability along the Souther Turkish border for decades. The sight of an "Islamist Government in Ankara, working to replace a Secular Government in Syria and replace with a Radical Islamist one, appears to be too much to bear and resentment which has been reported as simmering over the last couple of years seems to be boiling over at last. Add to this of course the concern that Erdogan may be planning to use the spread of Political Islam along the borders to justify ditching the last vestiges of secularism at home.

    The final straws however may have been the bombings in Souther Turkey last week, which everybody realises where set off by Al-Qa'ida affiliates, plus the undoubted use of Chemical weapons by similar groups recently as well. The notion of the Erdogan government appearing unconcerned about the identity of the true perpetrators of the bombings, plus maybe even being complicit in them, has indeed crossed a very real red line in Turkish public opinion.

    A few years ago, Turkeys "Zero problems with the neighbours" policy was largely lauded around the world. The collapse of that policy into chaos bordering on farce, could easily seal this administrations fate.
    Well, interesting.

    Of course, "secularists" were unhappy with Erdogan from day one of his reign. Their suspicions, however, largely didn't pan out. The groups mostly driving the protests right now are, however, mostly democrats concerned over an overbearing executive that is unresponsive to the people, set off by the surprisingly large and vocal opposition to the destruction of the Rezi Park in Istanbul. The other group that is rather restive these days is Alevites (about 20% of the Turkish population), who are not only in name similar to, and have close ties with, Syria's Alawites. For rather obvious reasons, they do not want to see their government help to overthrow Assad, and expose their cousins to the wrath of the Sunni majority.

    As for Assad, yes, his regime was in a way secular, as the Mullahs didn't control its fate, but it wasn't insofar as the Alawite minority seriously suppressed the Sunni majority, as you certainly know. Discrimination, or worse, on religious grounds is not exactly the sign of secular rule, don't you think?

    Well, as has been said, truth is a war's first victim, so I'd counsel against taking anything on "who set off this or that bomb", or "Who used, or was caught in possession of, Sarin" at face value. Certainly, your allegation that "everybody realises..." is wrong, as all sides point into different directions to apportion blame.

    Finally, it would appear you have quite a knack at identifying grand political concepts that either collapse or blow up in the authors' faces, eh? Of course, a "Zero problems" policy has to be met with something similar on the other side of the border to work. However, if that policy was a farce (as it was for most of the last decade), it was because the Turks quite happily created considerable problems at and over their southern border with Iraq, going after the Kurds.

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    Bhadrakumar sheds very interesting light on the situation and given that he was India's ambassador to Turkey during a period key to the current situation of key players, I think he should be read with care and diligence.

    Asia Times Online :: Et tu, Gul? Then fall, Erdogan

    Without once mentioning the blowback, he manages to describe it perfectly, with a three way tug of war with the Turkish establishment. Beyond the obvious secularist/Islamist divide, he also points to more intercine Wahibbist/Salafist divide within the ruling AKP itself.
    It describes blowback as it splits along the growing divide between Qatar and the Saudi's over strategy regarding the Syrian conflict.
    I also note that the Turkish sources that reported the Al-Qaeda/Sarin Gas story were partial to the anti Erdogan faction and that the story broke in Turkey on the same day that the level of protests stepped up and gathered real traction. Clearly the notion of Turkish Citizens being Gas Attacked on Turkish territory for a false flag operation is not widely appreciated by the general populace.

    The zero problems policy was working well enough until the start of the Syrian turmoil and Turkish relations with the National Governments of nearly all its neighbours were at historic highs. Turkey galvanised regional disapproval of Israeli policy to Gaza and the West Bank, they produced a programme with Iran to help defuse the Nuclear Issue and were on good terms with Baghdad, Damascus and Moscow. Now Turkey is at loggerheads with all of them in way or another.
    It did seem pretty incoherent at first glance, but if seen from the position of Erdogan as a Sectarian Militant Islamist who failed to keep his mask in place when the storms hit, then it looks a little clearer.

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    These are dangerous times for Turkey. While I wouldn't necessarily agree with the government there, it is an elected government, and it has been elected fair and square by a majority. Its failure would signal a Thai style descent into fake democracy, where a metropolitan elite will never accept the will of a majority, who mostly live in the country.

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    Two very interesting facts about Turkey (1) Turkey is 99% Muslim (2) Turkey is a secular state with no official religion

    Turkey is probably the most laid back Muslim nation on earth, the fanatics and extremists which are all too common in places like Pakistan, Yemen or Somalia are almost non existent in Turkey.

    The reason why so many of Turkeys population reject Islamists in politics and government is because Turkey is closely associated with Europe, indeed part of the country is in Europe, many Turks see themselves as westernized and have little interest in the developing world where most Muslims live.

    I happen to agree with the leading politicians in Britain, I fully support Turkeys addmission into the European Union

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