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Thread: Pseudo Socialists

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    Pseudo Socialists

    I have every respect for true Socialists, even though, strictly speaking, I do not regard myself as a Socialist.

    However, there is one group of people that I have less respect for that anyone else, yes, ANYONE. These would be pseudo socialists. Lord knows there are plenty of them that go to Edin Uni. My flat happens to be very close to the Uni, and I see them out there, every day, promoting their 'socialism', and they make me want to throw up. You are NOT a socialist if you speak posh enough to have dinner with the Queen, have daddy finance your private education, have an 'allowance' which is more than the average worker...you're just a jumped up ****.

    *Breathes out*



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    Re: Pseudo Socialists

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Napier View Post
    I have every respect for true Socialists, even though, strictly speaking, I do not regard myself as a Socialist.

    However, there is one group of people that I have less respect for that anyone else, yes, ANYONE. These would be pseudo socialists. Lord knows there are plenty of them that go to Edin Uni. My flat happens to be very close to the Uni, and I see them out there, every day, promoting their 'socialism', and they make me want to throw up. You are NOT a socialist if you speak posh enough to have dinner with the Queen, have daddy finance your private education, have an 'allowance' which is more than the average worker...you're just a jumped up ****.

    *Breathes out*



    So by the same measure does that mean working class people can't be conservatives?
    So unproductive has conservatism been in producing a general conception of how a social order is maintained that its modern votaries, in trying to construct a theoretical foundation, invariably find themselves appealing almost exclusively to authors who regarded themselves as liberal. - F.A. Hayek


    Economic Left/Right: 4.38
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    Re: Pseudo Socialists

    Quote Originally Posted by JacquesMagique View Post
    So by the same measure does that mean working class people can't be conservatives?
    What do you think?

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    Re: Pseudo Socialists

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Napier View Post
    What do you think?
    Well no I think the whole point is that it's a question of belief not background. I don't really see somebody's background as a reason to criticise their views.
    So unproductive has conservatism been in producing a general conception of how a social order is maintained that its modern votaries, in trying to construct a theoretical foundation, invariably find themselves appealing almost exclusively to authors who regarded themselves as liberal. - F.A. Hayek


    Economic Left/Right: 4.38
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

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    Re: Pseudo Socialists

    Quote Originally Posted by JacquesMagique View Post
    Well no I think the whole point is that it's a question of belief not background. I don't really see somebody's background as a reason to criticise their views.
    Sincerity is key, JM, I am sure you will agree. I can only speak from personal experience, these pseudo socialist students that I refer to, there is nothing sincere about them. They are fake. For them, socialism and waving their little Che flags is merely a 'fashion'. They eventually grow out of it, become part of the mainstream. Most of those I have met, they would not want to associate with a bin man from a housing estate, in Edinburgh.

    Like I say - 100% fake.

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    Re: Pseudo Socialists

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Napier View Post
    Sincerity is key, JM, I am sure you will agree. I can only speak from personal experience, these pseudo socialist students that I refer to, there is nothing sincere about them. They are fake. For them, socialism and waving their little Che flags is merely a 'fashion'. They eventually grow out of it, become part of the mainstream. Most of those I have met, they would not want to associate with a bin man from a housing estate, in Edinburgh.

    Like I say - 100% fake.
    To be fair though aren't you supposed to flirt with political ideologies at University? Isn't it part of the overall education experience to mix with people of different backgrounds to your own and consider different beliefs etc.?
    "The people who have sacrificed their view in order to get to the top have very often left no footprints in the sands of time." Tony Benn

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    Major Sinic Guest

    Re: Pseudo Socialists

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Napier View Post
    I have every respect for true Socialists, even though, strictly speaking, I do not regard myself as a Socialist.

    However, there is one group of people that I have less respect for that anyone else, yes, ANYONE. These would be pseudo socialists. Lord knows there are plenty of them that go to Edin Uni. My flat happens to be very close to the Uni, and I see them out there, every day, promoting their 'socialism', and they make me want to throw up. You are NOT a socialist if you speak posh enough to have dinner with the Queen, have daddy finance your private education, have an 'allowance' which is more than the average worker...you're just a jumped up ****.

    *Breathes out*


    So Tony Wedgewood-Benn was not a socialist! He spoke well enough to have dinner with the Queen, his father, the 1st Viscount Stansgate, paid for his education at Westminster, arguably one of the most prestigeous public schools in the country, and he received considerable family property and wealth, far exceeding the income or wealth of the average worker.

    It is therefore odd that people, admittedly many with far greater gravitas and insight than your post displays, consider him one of the most principled and committed post war socialists. Even I, as a Conservative, admire him as a man with great integrity and principle, despite the fact that I disagree with his ideology.

    A propensity to judge someone solely by their wealth, accent or background is equally superficial and distasteful whether it comes from some supercilious sixth former from Eton College, or an unemployed road sweeper with a chip on his shoulder.

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    Re: Pseudo Socialists

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    So Tony Wedgewood-Benn was not a socialist! He spoke well enough to have dinner with the Queen, his father, the 1st Viscount Stansgate, paid for his education at Westminster, arguably one of the most prestigeous public schools in the country, and he received considerable family property and wealth, far exceeding the income or wealth of the average worker.

    It is therefore odd that people, admittedly many with far greater gravitas and insight than your post displays, consider him one of the most principled and committed post war socialists. Even I, as a Conservative, admire him as a man with great integrity and principle, despite the fact that I disagree with his ideology.

    A propensity to judge someone solely by their wealth, accent or background is equally superficial and distasteful whether it comes from some supercilious sixth former from Eton College, or an unemployed road sweeper with a chip on his shoulder.
    Quite agree, just because a person belongs to part of society that is priveleged doesn't mean they can't see the system as corrupt and unjust. It's an age old criticism of the left though isn't it that it is hypocritical to criticise a system whilst you benefit personally from it, socialism is not a deeds based philosophy as far as I am aware.
    To be fair though, Benn gave up his claim to the title and HoL seat on principle and Dennis Skinner always took the mean average wage of his constituents and gave the rest of his salary to charity, so there is precedent for practising what you preach on the Left.
    "The people who have sacrificed their view in order to get to the top have very often left no footprints in the sands of time." Tony Benn

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    Re: Pseudo Socialists

    Quote Originally Posted by Opinionated View Post
    To be fair though aren't you supposed to flirt with political ideologies at University? Isn't it part of the overall education experience to mix with people of different backgrounds to your own and consider different beliefs etc.?
    I don't know - are you 'supposed' to flirt with political idealogies, at Uni? Seems to me that they tend to flirt only with one - old school socialism. I can't say I have seen many of these toffee nosed twerps 'flirting' with old school Fascism, National Socialism, or even mainstream British parties. It strikes me that the more toffee nosed the Uni, the more 'socialist' that the students tend to be, which I find vaguely ironic. And uni's do not come much more toffee nosed than Edinburgh University.

    Talking of pseudo socialists, I will relate a little story to you. I know a couple - both social workers (there is a cliche), and both 'liberal socialists'. Always voicing their support of state schooling etc, which you would expect a socialist to do, and would be fair enough - save for the fact that they sent their own son to one of the most elite private schools in the city. There is a word for that, OP, and that word is a bloody hypocrite. I have every respect for an political idealogy if the people, be they socialists, Tories, Labour, whatever, actually live by it. When they don't, it just makes them pathetic and two faced.

    Imo of course..

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    Re: Pseudo Socialists

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Napier View Post
    I don't know - are you 'supposed' to flirt with political idealogies, at Uni? Seems to me that they tend to flirt only with one - old school socialism. I can't say I have seen many of these toffee nosed twerps 'flirting' with old school Fascism, National Socialism, or even mainstream British parties. It strikes me that the more toffee nosed the Uni, the more 'socialist' that the students tend to be, which I find vaguely ironic. And uni's do not come much more toffee nosed than Edinburgh University.
    Yeah I think you are supposed to it's a first taste of freedom from your parents and a time before the responsibilities of adulthood kick in. I'm guessing the reason old school Socialism is more popular than those others you mention is because of it's academic and intellectual base - Marxist thought still underpins huge sections of humanities curricular even if it's not promoted as "truth".

    Talking of pseudo socialists, I will relate a little story to you. I know a couple - both social workers (there is a cliche), and both 'liberal socialists'. Always voicing their support of state schooling etc, which you would expect a socialist to do, and would be fair enough - save for the fact that they sent their own son to one of the most elite private schools in the city. There is a word for that, OP, and that word is a bloody hypocrite. I have every respect for an political idealogy if the people, be they socialists, Tories, Labour, whatever, actually live by it. When they don't, it just makes them pathetic and two faced.

    Imo of course..
    We are all hypocrites when it comes to our children Jack!
    "The people who have sacrificed their view in order to get to the top have very often left no footprints in the sands of time." Tony Benn

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