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Thread: Police demo tactics will lead to political awareness in the younger generation.

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    Police demo tactics will lead to political awareness in the younger generation.

    Last Wednesday The bright eyed and bushy tailed students and and school children whose parents packed their lunches and waved them goodbye for their first demonstration in protest against the prohibitive hike in student's fees have their first taste of what will happen to them or anyone else who protests against any of the coalition's Ideological monstrous cuts.

    To detain the youngsters for hours in one place without access to water or toilet facilities to stop them using their democratic right to march was an extreme over reaction for the failure to foresee the outcome of the Millbank fiasco.

    The Police action could prove to be a major factor in youth political awareness as they plan their future demos against the cuts and tactics against the inhuman practice of herding people like cattle.

    The beneficiaries of this awareness are unlikely to be the parties of the coalition.

    Student protest: how the Harry Potter generation turned into a band of rebels | Education | The Observer
    Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"

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    Re: Police demo tactics will lead to political awareness in the younger generation.

    Good article from the observer there, and it makes some key points;
    1. The students aren't going to give up.
    2. Kettling a group of angry 17-year olds is perhaps the surest way to radicalise them against the police. Future confrontations can only go two ways - more violent, or more clever. I hope for the latter, but wouldn't be surprised by the former.
    3. Most of the kids (mostly middle-class kids if the article is to be believed) on the demo were previously apolicitical, and came back home shouting things that would make the militant tendency proud.

    A few years from now we'll know for sure whether Generation Y will become the first cohort since the inter-war generation to embrace socialism as their own. If we do.... well... it won't be a dull decade.
    "Government by the people for the people becomes meaningless unless it includes major economic decision-making by the people for the people." - Jimmy Reid

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    Re: Police demo tactics will lead to political awareness in the younger generation.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAMC View Post
    Good article from the observer there, and it makes some key points;
    1. The students aren't going to give up.
    No, they are revolting, after all
    2. Kettling a group of angry 17-year olds is perhaps the surest way to radicalise them against the police. Future confrontations can only go two ways - more violent, or more clever. I hope for the latter, but wouldn't be surprised by the former.
    that's the thing with the Police, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They are damned when some unhealthy bloke about to die from natural causes, decides to try to provoke and rile the police for his swan song.
    3. Most of the kids (mostly middle-class kids if the article is to be believed) on the demo were previously apolicitical, and came back home shouting things that would make the militant tendency proud.
    How do you know what "most kids" came back home shouting?

    When the 3000 a year student charges were brought in, where were the protests then?
    There were none, as it was a socialist government, which proves this is an orchestrated move by the Socialist Workers Party and others (Communists) to try to bring down the coalition.
    Save us all 22,000,000 a day. Leave the EU.

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    Re: Police demo tactics will lead to political awareness in the younger generation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    No, they are revolting, after all
    No what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    that's the thing with the Police, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They are damned when some unhealthy bloke about to die from natural causes, decides to try to provoke and rile the police for his swan song.
    The police could make it easier on themselves in the long run by not using tactics deliberately designed to inflame the situation and contain it in a severely compressed space. For the protesters - avowed to return in order to let both the police and the government know that they've not been defeated - the temptation will be to resort to more extreme methods to counterbalance the police tactics that they now know to expect and to avoid being caught in the kettle again.

    The hardcore anarchists might go down the well-trodden path of using flares, increasingly big bits of metal (already seen crowbars) and ultimately molotovs - but we're a long way from that still, thankfully. On the other hand I expect the ordinary students on the other hand to come up with something that we've not seen before. If I were intending to attend the next demo, I'd be very tempted to try and cobble together some sort of crude sonic weapon from compressed air canisters, some gas tubing and about 30 vuvuzelas. Try kettling that!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    How do you know what "most kids" came back home shouting?
    It was implied in the article linked in the first post. Did you even read it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    When the 3000 a year student charges were brought in, where were the protests then?
    There were grumblings, but nothing on the scale we've seen recently. It only stands to reason that the greater the injustice, the more vehement the response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    There were none, as it was a socialist government, which proves this is an orchestrated move by the Socialist Workers Party and others (Communists) to try to bring down the coalition.
    Quite apart from the fact that New Labour weren't socialist, that is totally ridiculous reasoning. I could just as easily claim that an absence of unicorns in my area is proof of an orchestrated move by the local tory wine 'n 'cheese-tasting club to wipe them out.

    According to you, anyone would think that the class of 2010 have no right to be upset about an immediate three-fold increase in the cost of their tuition - or at least that if they express anything other than brimming acquiescence with the proposals then they must be soviet apparatchiks.
    "Government by the people for the people becomes meaningless unless it includes major economic decision-making by the people for the people." - Jimmy Reid

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    Re: Police demo tactics will lead to political awareness in the younger generation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post

    How do you know what "most kids" came back home shouting?
    As somebody who was there, I would say Jamc is correct.



    When the 3000 a year student charges were brought in, where were the protests then?
    There were none, as it was a socialist government, which proves this is an orchestrated move by the Socialist Workers Party and others (Communists) to try to bring down the coalition.
    Nonsense. Again, speaking as somebody who has witnessed the organisation of these actions, there is a clear dividing line between the free-education type people, openly associated with the SWP, and those who are simply concerned with such a major increase in fees. The NUS organises all of the mainstream demonstrations, and they have been quick to distance themselves from the more radical minority.
    So unproductive has conservatism been in producing a general conception of how a social order is maintained that its modern votaries, in trying to construct a theoretical foundation, invariably find themselves appealing almost exclusively to authors who regarded themselves as liberal. - F.A. Hayek


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    Re: Police demo tactics will lead to political awareness in the younger generation.

    All this kicked off whilst I was away so I've seen nothing of it, however do people seriously think that a bunch of revolting students (read that which ever way you want) will really have any effect other than to make the majority of Middle England think that they're simply out to cause trouble?

    I'd seriously question how many students, regardless of whether they were involved in this particular demonstration or not, are fully aware of all the facts surrounding the country's debt, just why we're in the mess we are and why cuts are so essential. Many of the leaders might be, however I'd bet that a significant majority of the followers are simply there because a/ they selfishly don't want their own pockets affected like everyone else or b/ they think joining in a demonstration might be a bit of fun, especially if it deteriorates to a riot.

    For the majority though, facts and social responsibility will not be given a moment's thought.
    Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant only an intellectual could ignore it - Thomas Sowell

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    Re: Police demo tactics will lead to political awareness in the younger generation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midas View Post
    All this kicked off whilst I was away so I've seen nothing of it, however do people seriously think that a bunch of revolting students (read that which ever way you want) will really have any effect other than to make the majority of Middle England think that they're simply out to cause trouble?

    I'd seriously question how many students, regardless of whether they were involved in this particular demonstration or not, are fully aware of all the facts surrounding the country's debt, just why we're in the mess we are and why cuts are so essential. Many of the leaders might be, however I'd bet that a significant majority of the followers are simply there because a/ they selfishly don't want their own pockets affected like everyone else or b/ they think joining in a demonstration might be a bit of fun, especially if it deteriorates to a riot.

    For the majority though, facts and social responsibility will not be given a moment's thought.
    You can't use the debt to justify this one midas.

    According to Osbourne's own plans, the deficit will be done away with before these plans even come into effect properly. Furthermore, the government will have to lend 9000 to every student who goes to university anyway.

    These proposals aren't going to make a jot of difference to the deficit. The debt, certainly in this case, is just a smokescreen for ideological cuts.

    With regards the purpose of the demonstration, my understanding is that the NUS and other groups involved hope to convince particularly the lib dem mps to rebel against the proposals. Some lib dem MPs rely a lot on the student vote, and we've seen a significant amount of noise coming from some lib dem mps concerned they will be unseated.
    So unproductive has conservatism been in producing a general conception of how a social order is maintained that its modern votaries, in trying to construct a theoretical foundation, invariably find themselves appealing almost exclusively to authors who regarded themselves as liberal. - F.A. Hayek


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    Re: Police demo tactics will lead to political awareness in the younger generation.

    Quote Originally Posted by JacquesMagique View Post
    the government will have to lend 9000 to every student who goes to university anyway...
    No, that is not true.
    There are those who can afford to pay.
    Save us all 22,000,000 a day. Leave the EU.

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    Re: Police demo tactics will lead to political awareness in the younger generation.

    When most socialist talk or type, all I hear or read is Bla Blab winge winge..

    Blooming hot air bags, hypocrites and back door supporters...

    Violence is violence, it has no place in any decent society. If they feel this is unfair, instead of protesting why don't they use judicial revue to get the decision overturned as is their right? Oh no, this would not allow scruffy, lazy, communist supporter wannabe's the chance to wreck public property and blame the Government for their ills.

    Oh I nearly forgot, we should have sympathy, if the students have to pay more, they will have less money for drugs and alcohol, which is a real disaster and that means more useless goits will live long enough to breed, enter public life and scrounge from the state for decades at a time!!

    Sorry, am I cynical? Damn right.
    Left for a place without a childish and spite filled Moderator with a Hitler complex. A place of democracy and common sense where questions can be asked with a Mod getting their knickers in a twist because they lack confidence and are on a power trip.

    bet this gets edited. Take care all the decent people here. have fun.

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    Re: Police demo tactics will lead to political awareness in the younger generation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    No, that is not true.
    There are those who can afford to pay.
    Ok, the vast majority of students who already take a loan for 3200 a year, plus those who are further priced out of it by the increase in fees. It's going to be a tiny tiny minority who don't need a loan.
    So unproductive has conservatism been in producing a general conception of how a social order is maintained that its modern votaries, in trying to construct a theoretical foundation, invariably find themselves appealing almost exclusively to authors who regarded themselves as liberal. - F.A. Hayek


    Economic Left/Right: 4.38
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

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