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Thread: Ireland:The triumph of politics over economics!

  1. #1
    Major Sinic Guest

    Ireland:The triumph of politics over economics!

    Ireland contributes less than 2% of the EU's GDP. Its disappearance would barely cause an economic blip. Except that the economic pressure would transfer to Portugal and thence to Spain or Italy. So the European Government and the ECB pump billions of pounds of European taxpayers money into Ireland to rescue both the country and its banks using the EFSF scheme. While ever we have a single currency used by both strong and weak economies this situation will continue.

    Ireland is to borrow between 80-90 billion euros, somewhere around 74 billion pounds. This equates to approximately 16500 for every man, woman and child living there.

    If the same bailout were to apply to Britain for example we would be talking about an amount exceeding 1 trillion pounds.

    As one who originally was in favour of the European Union, I have to now acknowledge that it is turning into a political and economic nightmare.

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    Re: Ireland:The triumph of politics over economics!

    It is a very strange siuation, but it shows the degree to which the European financial institutions and their political puppets are running scared. If Ireland let its banks collapse....which they should....it would undoubtly bring down British, French and German financial institutions.

    You are mistakingly assuming though, that the 80-90 billion is going to Ireland. It is going to Irish banks who in turn will pass it over to the French, British and German institutions that they owe. The sad thing is that the Irish citizen will be paying back this debt for generations. So this is no charity Major, Irish citizens have been made slaves to the banking system. This is capitalism at its worst....a nighmare yes....where the core big states will go to any lengths to protect their own interets and if that means using the smaller ones on the periphery, so be it. I hate the EU and its neoliberal agenda.

    To us Irish people failed by our own corrupt government and endebted to the EU/IMF for generations it is most definitley the triumph of banking over politics.

  3. #3
    Major Sinic Guest

    Re: Ireland:The triumph of politics over economics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraxinus View Post
    It is a very strange siuation, but it shows the degree to which the European financial institutions and their political puppets are running scared. If Ireland let its banks collapse....which they should....it would undoubtly bring down British, French and German financial institutions.

    You are mistakingly assuming though, that the 80-90 billion is going to Ireland. It is going to Irish banks who in turn will pass it over to the French, British and German institutions that they owe. The sad thing is that the Irish citizen will be paying back this debt for generations. So this is no charity Major, Irish citizens have been made slaves to the banking system. This is capitalism at its worst....a nighmare yes....where the core big states will go to any lengths to protect their own interets and if that means using the smaller ones on the periphery, so be it. I hate the EU and its neoliberal agenda.

    To us Irish people failed by our own corrupt government and endebted to the EU/IMF for generations it is most definitley the triumph of banking over politics.
    No mistake. The loan will be made to the country of Ireland; and the people of Ireland will be responsible for its repayment. It will then be repackaged and provided on to the Irish institutions requiring it.

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    Re: Ireland:The triumph of politics over economics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    No mistake. The loan will be made to the country of Ireland; and the people of Ireland will be responsible for its repayment. It will then be repackaged and provided on to the Irish institutions requiring it.
    All I say is lender beware. Should Ireland ever become a progressive democracy in the near future, any loans taken out by corrupt governments to pay off parasitic banks will be rendered null and void.

  5. #5
    Major Sinic Guest

    Re: Ireland:The triumph of politics over economics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraxinus View Post
    All I say is lender beware. Should Ireland ever become a progressive democracy in the near future, any loans taken out by corrupt governments to pay off parasitic banks will be rendered null and void.
    I think that you are letting wishful thinking get in the way of reality. Should any future government of Ireland renege on these legally constructed loans whilst still in a position to service them, they would become economic pariahs. Far more to the point is that in requiring this loan which will probably not be paid off in two or even three generations, the Irish Government, whether corrupt or not I do not know, is sacrificing a large proportion of what little national self-determination they have left, so whatever form of government you might like to see in place, the reality is that it will be a paper tiger which when asked to jump by Brussels, will ask 'How high?'. All that fighting England to gain independence was largely for nothing.

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    Re: Ireland:The triumph of politics over economics!

    Have to agree with MS there, you're way too late now, you're a vassal state of EUSSR. Like us you've been sold, bought and paid for and the funniest thing is it'll be you guys who are paying your masters for the privilege of being owned by them. You know that Hitler had some faults but at least he was an honest dictator..... (Irony alert)
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

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    Re: Ireland:The triumph of politics over economics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    I think that you are letting wishful thinking get in the way of reality. Should any future government of Ireland renege on these legally constructed loans whilst still in a position to service them, they would become economic pariahs. Far more to the point is that in requiring this loan which will probably not be paid off in two or even three generations, the Irish Government, whether corrupt or not I do not know, is sacrificing a large proportion of what little national self-determination they have left, so whatever form of government you might like to see in place, the reality is that it will be a paper tiger which when asked to jump by Brussels, will ask 'How high?'. All that fighting England to gain independence was largely for nothing.
    That's why I say SHOULD Major....it's unlikely in the near future but sometimes revolutions happen when people are pushed to the absolute limit.

    I would say that any progressive government with a brain in the head would ditch the negative influences that are the US and the UK and form alliances with China, India or even Russia. Pulling out of the EU would be paramount to any restructuring.

    We never had true independence Major, like a beaten wife that keeps going back to her abusive husband we kept returning to Britain with a begging bowl, even as ye held part of our nation. Granted it wasn't that easy back then (Free State independence 1922) to make alliances with countries not geographically close to you. But now in the new age of technology and the large technological sector in Ireland, China and India are perfect partners for us if we would just wake up.

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    Re: Ireland:The triumph of politics over economics!

    Quote Originally Posted by TellMeMore View Post
    Have to agree with MS there, you're way too late now, you're a vassal state of EUSSR. Like us you've been sold, bought and paid for and the funniest thing is it'll be you guys who are paying your masters for the privilege of being owned by them. You know that Hitler had some faults but at least he was an honest dictator..... (Irony alert)
    Completely agree. I'm under no illussions to who our masters are. The EU is German imperialism by stealth.

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    Re: Ireland:The triumph of politics over economics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraxinus View Post
    You are mistakingly assuming though, that the 80-90 billion is going to Ireland. It is going to Irish banks who in turn will pass it over to the French, British and German institutions that they owe. The sad thing is that the Irish citizen will be paying back this debt for generations. So this is no charity Major, Irish citizens have been made slaves to the banking system.
    I'm with you on this. I haven't been able to shake the feeling that the fundamental act being perpetrated here is the dominant, powerful countries at the centre of the european economy (Germany, France, ourselves) are forcing - against their will - the smaller more brittle countries on the periphery of the continent (Greece, Ireland, Portugal) to accept loans that they would be best avoiding in the long run; and that the primary motivation for doing so is to weigh these peripheral countries down with debts so that the competitive advantage enjoyed by the big countries in the centre can continue unthreatened by the upstarts on the fringes. In that light, I cannot view the move to force Ireland to accept massive loans as altuistic or charitable, but rather as parasitic and predatory.
    "Government by the people for the people becomes meaningless unless it includes major economic decision-making by the people for the people." - Jimmy Reid

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    Re: Ireland:The triumph of politics over economics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    Should any future government of Ireland renege on these legally constructed loans whilst still in a position to service them, they would become economic pariahs.
    This is not neccesarily a bad thing. I call it "doing an Argentina".
    "Government by the people for the people becomes meaningless unless it includes major economic decision-making by the people for the people." - Jimmy Reid

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