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Thread: Ireland's economic disaster: double dip

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    Ireland's economic disaster: double dip

    After Ireland's government introduced a massive cuts program in an attempt to solve the credit crisis They are now heading for a double dip recession. Cameron's coalition is attempting the the same medicine for Britain. They ignore Ireland's plight a their peril and are following the same dangerous road by taking to much spending power out of the economy too quickly and before there is any sign of employment expanding.

    Their are novices at the wheel steering Britain's economy, and at the moment we could be heading for the rocks given what has happened in the Emerald Isle.


    Ireland's young flee abroad as economic meltdown looms | World news | The Observer
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    Re: Ireland's economic disaster: double dip

    So are you suggesting that Ireland increase government spending to solve their problem? That is really smart, isnít it? That is really going to end well, isnít it?

    Since the end of WWII most countries have spent more money than they took in. Nowadays, throughout the world, that stupidity is catching up with everybody.

    We idiots in the Western Democracies have elected morons that simply spent more money than they had. It is time to pay the price. We do not only have to pay the price for the debt but also for allowing the governments to curtail free markets and capitalism.

    Our post WWII shift to Socialism has come home to roost and now we are crying about the price we have to pay. There are far too many entitlement programs in every Western Democracy and the economies simply can substain the government milking off anywhere from one third to one half of the GNP.

    We are all going to have to go through hard times because of our stupidly in allowing this to happen. The real question is if we ever get it straighten out are we going to return to the same failed Left policies that got us there in the first place or will we finally understand that Socialism is a failed economic institution and should be put it in the trash heap of history like other forms of slavery?
    Libtards hate freedom unless it is the freedom to kill a child on demand for the sake of convenience. Otherwise they want the government to control every aspect of our lives.

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    Re: Ireland's economic disaster: double dip

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    So are you suggesting that Ireland increase government spending to solve their problem? That is really smart, isnít it? That is really going to end well, isnít it?

    Since the end of WWII most countries have spent more money than they took in. Nowadays, throughout the world, that stupidity is catching up with everybody.

    We idiots in the Western Democracies have elected morons that simply spent more money than they had. It is time to pay the price. We do not only have to pay the price for the debt but also for allowing the governments to curtail free markets and capitalism.

    Our post WWII shift to Socialism has come home to roost and now we are crying about the price we have to pay. There are far too many entitlement programs in every Western Democracy and the economies simply can sustain the government milking off anywhere from one third to one half of the GNP.

    We are all going to have to go through hard times because of our stupidly in allowing this to happen. The real question is if we ever get it straighten out are we going to return to the same failed Left policies that got us there in the first place or will we finally understand that Socialism is a failed economic institution and should be put it in the trash heap of history like other forms of slavery?

    I thought it was school boy economics flash. Cut expenditure by making 3.000000 unemployed with no jobs for them to be re-employed equates to 3.000000 on the dole. Spend money to help job creation [private or otherwise] before they are thrown on the dole wholesale unemployment can be kept under control. Although there will be a tough period when this is taking place, the economy doesn't go beyond the point of no return Japanese style.
    Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"

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    Re: Ireland's economic disaster: double dip

    Quote Originally Posted by Expounder View Post
    I thought it was school boy economics flash. Cut expenditure by making 3.000000 unemployed with no jobs for them to be re-employed equates to 3.000000 on the dole. Spend money to help job creation [private or otherwise] before they are thrown on the dole wholesale unemployment can be kept under control. Although there will be a tough period when this is taking place, the economy doesn't go beyond the point of no return Japanese style.
    What you seem to not understand is that the government does not create jobs. The government takes money from the productive economy and then spends it most of the time inefficiently on things that that are uneconomical in the private sector.

    Most economist will tell that every government job cost the private sector anywhere from 1.5 to 2 jobs. Even if they are wrong and it is a wash then why trade jobs that were created through the competitive marketplace for jobs that were created on the whim of a stupid politician? There are some good reasons to do that like in the case of national defense and maybe road building and a few other necessary government functions but the list is not nearly as long as the filthy politicians have made it.

    If the government doesnít take the money from the private sector for the jobs through taxatation and does what most countries have been doing lately and printing money to pay the workers then the currency has been devalued and there is a tremendous inflation budge in the pipeline.

    If the government goes out and borrows the money to create the worthless government jobs then the taxpayers have to pay interest on the debt and in some cases, like my country, that cost is enormous. In most Western Democracies nowadays the debt is at least as much as a yearís GNP and in some cases several multiples.

    You canít run a household by taking money from necessary things and spending it on unnecessary things or borrowing a lot more money than you can afford to pay back or going out and printing your own money to cover your debt. Why do we allow our government to do the stupid things that we know we canít do in our own households?

    Ireland and Greece are the first ones to have the pay the price. The rest of us are not far behind. There is a world of hurt for all of us in the pipeline because we have let our elected officials act irresponsible and have not held them accountable.

    Since we have been fairly affluent living on borrowed money and donít really understand economic hardship we have this fantasy that we can all get out of this mess without anybody really being hurt but we are wrong.
    Libtards hate freedom unless it is the freedom to kill a child on demand for the sake of convenience. Otherwise they want the government to control every aspect of our lives.

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    Re: Ireland's economic disaster: double dip

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    What you seem to not understand is that the government does not create jobs. The government takes money from the productive economy and then spends it most of the time inefficiently on things that that are uneconomical in the private sector.

    Most economist will tell that every government job cost the private sector anywhere from 1.5 to 2 jobs. Even if they are wrong and it is a wash then why trade jobs that were created through the competitive marketplace for jobs that were created on the whim of a stupid politician? There are some good reasons to do that like in the case of national defense and maybe road building and a few other necessary government functions but the list is not nearly as long as the filthy politicians have made it.

    If the government doesnít take the money from the private sector for the jobs through taxatation and does what most countries have been doing lately and printing money to pay the workers then the currency has been devalued and there is a tremendous inflation budge in the pipeline.

    If the government goes out and borrows the money to create the worthless government jobs then the taxpayers have to pay interest on the debt and in some cases, like my country, that cost is enormous. In most Western Democracies nowadays the debt is at least as much as a yearís GNP and in some cases several multiples.

    You canít run a household by taking money from necessary things and spending it on unnecessary things or borrowing a lot more money than you can afford to pay back or going out and printing your own money to cover your debt. Why do we allow our government to do the stupid things that we know we canít do in our own households?

    Ireland and Greece are the first ones to have the pay the price. The rest of us are not far behind. There is a world of hurt for all of us in the pipeline because we have let our elected officials act irresponsible and have not held them accountable.

    Since we have been fairly affluent living on borrowed money and donít really understand economic hardship we have this fantasy that we can all get out of this mess without anybody really being hurt but we are wrong.

    What a load of rubbish.
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    Re: Ireland's economic disaster: double dip

    Quote Originally Posted by Expounder View Post
    After Ireland's government introduced a massive cuts program in an attempt to solve the credit crisis They are now heading for a double dip recession. Cameron's coalition is attempting the the same medicine for Britain. They ignore Ireland's plight a their peril and are following the same dangerous road by taking to much spending power out of the economy too quickly and before there is any sign of employment expanding.
    These are such ironic words from the mouth of one who supported the socialism which has brought the UK to near bankruptcy.
    You say that Ireland is headed for another (double dip) recession, although the article you linked to does not actually say so.
    I don't know if Ireland is in recession or not, but their economic situation is no worse than Britain's as they are pretty much both bankrupt.

    Thank goodness the socialists have finally been booted out in the UK. Maybe the coalition will repair the damage, maybe they will fail, but I support their efforts to balance the books. It looks a lot like Thatcher's similar attempts to repair failed socialism, which was painful, but was eventually successful.
    Save us all £22,000,000 a day. Leave the EU.

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    Re: Ireland's economic disaster: double dip

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    What you seem to not understand is that the government does not create jobs. The government takes money from the productive economy and then spends it most of the time inefficiently on things that that are uneconomical in the private sector.

    Most economist will tell that every government job cost the private sector anywhere from 1.5 to 2 jobs. Even if they are wrong and it is a wash then why trade jobs that were created through the competitive marketplace for jobs that were created on the whim of a stupid politician? There are some good reasons to do that like in the case of national defense and maybe road building and a few other necessary government functions but the list is not nearly as long as the filthy politicians have made it.

    If the government doesnít take the money from the private sector for the jobs through taxatation and does what most countries have been doing lately and printing money to pay the workers then the currency has been devalued and there is a tremendous inflation budge in the pipeline.

    If the government goes out and borrows the money to create the worthless government jobs then the taxpayers have to pay interest on the debt and in some cases, like my country, that cost is enormous. In most Western Democracies nowadays the debt is at least as much as a yearís GNP and in some cases several multiples.

    You canít run a household by taking money from necessary things and spending it on unnecessary things or borrowing a lot more money than you can afford to pay back or going out and printing your own money to cover your debt. Why do we allow our government to do the stupid things that we know we canít do in our own households?

    Ireland and Greece are the first ones to have the pay the price. The rest of us are not far behind. There is a world of hurt for all of us in the pipeline because we have let our elected officials act irresponsible and have not held them accountable.

    Since we have been fairly affluent living on borrowed money and donít really understand economic hardship we have this fantasy that we can all get out of this mess without anybody really being hurt but we are wrong.
    The Japanese pursued the same economic format of solely deep cuts to solve their economic problems a decade ago and their economy is still stagnant the Japanese admit they got it wrong and Japanese economists have appeared on British TV warning of the dangers of this policy.

    There is no guarantee this policy will work without the balance of job creation whether public or private. If public spending drys up British businesses will close, and if this deep cut format is copied by other major nations, exports from all of these counties will dry up as there will be no one to buy them. we'll be back to the thirties.
    Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"

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    Re: Ireland's economic disaster: double dip

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    These are such ironic words from the mouth of one who supported the socialism which has brought the UK to near bankruptcy.
    You say that Ireland is headed for another (double dip) recession, although the article you linked to does not actually say so.
    I don't know if Ireland is in recession or not, but their economic situation is no worse than Britain's as they are pretty much both bankrupt.

    Thank goodness the socialists have finally been booted out in the UK. Maybe the coalition will repair the damage, maybe they will fail, but I support their efforts to balance the books. It looks a lot like Thatcher's similar attempts to repair failed socialism, which was painful, but was eventually successful.
    Thatcherism was a disaster, which is why they booted her out, and why Major was booted out in 97. The problem was, they were replaced with another psudeo tory party that made matters even worse. 30 years of Conservatism has left this country in ruins, no manufacturing base, we don't own our public utilities, we've allowed the finance industry to build a paper economy and pilpher our wealth and bancrupt us.
    The coalition will fair no better, they're just as bad.
    The countries and economies that are leading the world now in terms of growth and lengevity are socialist economies. Western Capitalism has failed.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

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    Re: Ireland's economic disaster: double dip

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveUK View Post
    Thatcherism was a disaster, which is why they booted her out, and why Major was booted out in 97.
    No, Thatcherism was a major success, the books were all balanced by the time the Tories left office.
    Maggie's biggest problem was the Poll Tax - big mistake - scuppered her.
    The problem was, they were replaced with another psudeo tory party that made matters even worse. 30 years of Conservatism has left this country in ruins, no manufacturing base, we don't own our public utilities, we've allowed the finance industry to build a paper economy and pilpher our wealth and bancrupt us.
    Since the Tories were booted out, we have had 13 years of socialism which has been responsible for what you say here.

    The coalition will fair no better, they're just as bad.
    Give them a chance, we will wait and see.
    The countries and economies that are leading the world now in terms of growth and lengevity are socialist economies. Western Capitalism has failed.
    There is a jokes section on this forum, Dave, you should post this there!
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    Re: Ireland's economic disaster: double dip

    Ireland is in the sh1tter not because of socialism but due to the evils of neo-liberalism (thanks Thatcher and Reagan) and corrupt political class.

    Ireland's corrupt government nationalised the debts of the big banks and blanket guaranteed the bondholders. The main offender is a bank called Anglo Irish, which loaned recklessly to property developers. Instead of letting the property developers and bank take the hit the government decided to let the Iirish taxpaying citizen pick up the tab. It then transpired that the government bit off more than it could chew, thinking the tab was to be initially 1 billion but now the figure looks more like 35 billion and counting.
    The Irish banks main bondholders are from big British, German and French financial institutions. Now these countries are bricking it that if the Irish banks go to the wall their financial institutions are going to take the hit. That's one of the reasons a bank bailout is being pushed on the Irish government. If accepted, the money will go straight to the banks and Irish citizens will pay it off for the rest of their working days.

    One of the bondholders in one of the Irish banks is Roman Abramovic. For the past three years we've had 4 austerity budgets with cuts to public services and tax hikes, emigration is rife and all to pay Frank Lampards wages. It's a bloody disgrace.

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