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Thread: Waterboarding saved British lives

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    Waterboarding saved British lives

    British lives were saved by the use of information obtained from terrorist suspects by "waterboarding", according to former US President George W Bush.
    In his memoir, he said the simulated drowning technique helped break plots on Heathrow Airport and Canary Wharf.
    Number 10 declined to comment directly on the claims but said it considered waterboarding to be torture...........

    BBC News - George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Would you support torture if it meant saving British lives?
    Vote BNP

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    Re: Waterboarding saved British lives

    This is a very difficult subject.
    First of all it is about the rules of conflict, and we all know neither side keep to them. Perhaps some more than others.
    Which begs the question, "Why do we have rules of war"?
    Some would say that all is fair in love and war.

    If GWB is to be believed, lives have already been saved by averting attacks, by obtaining information by use of this interrogation technique, which I believe is clearly torture.
    Some on this forum will say that torture does not work.
    I'm not so sure.

    Answer to your question, is, YES.
    Save us all 22,000,000 a day. Leave the EU.

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    Re: Waterboarding saved British lives

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas View Post
    British lives were saved by the use of information obtained from terrorist suspects by "waterboarding", according to former US President George W Bush.
    In his memoir, he said the simulated drowning technique helped break plots on Heathrow Airport and Canary Wharf.
    Number 10 declined to comment directly on the claims but said it considered waterboarding to be torture...........

    BBC News - George W Bush claims UK lives 'saved by waterboarding'

    Would you support torture if it meant saving British lives?
    It is the fact that British politicians believed the output of George Bush that got us into military engagements which we really should have left alone.

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    Re: Waterboarding saved British lives

    The issue as far as I'm concerned isn't so much the torture itself, than can, and often has, resulted in lives being saved. It's more the fact that the Americans captured and imprisoned many people on the absolute flimsiest of evidence, like just being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and denied them any rights whatsoever in prisons like Guantanamo - many of whom have subsequently been found not guilty by courts in their own countries (including here in the UK) subsequent to their release - then tortured them without any underlying evidence of either complicity or guilt.
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    Re: Waterboarding saved British lives

    Quote Originally Posted by Midas View Post
    The issue as far as I'm concerned isn't so much the torture itself, than can, and often has, resulted in lives being saved. It's more the fact that the Americans captured and imprisoned many people on the absolute flimsiest of evidence, like just being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and denied them any rights whatsoever in prisons like Guantanamo - many of whom have subsequently been found not guilty by courts in their own countries (including here in the UK) subsequent to their release - then tortured them without any underlying evidence of either complicity or guilt.
    How do you know the evidence was "flimsy"?

    Besides, who really cares?

    I don't think British Bomber Command looked for evidence that the German civilians and children that they killed en massed in WWII were engaged in supporting Hitler, did they? I am sure the UK rounded up suspects in Basra and in Afghanistan with about the same level of evidence as other Coalition and NATO countries. In other words hardly a GW Bush phenomenon.


    Water boarding is evidently not a very pleasant experience but in the scheme of warfare it is a minor distraction. My understanding is that very few were actually waterboarded and the ones that were had information that was useful.


    This is just another distraction by the Left to undermine the War on Terror. There is no significant moral issue when we are discussing a technique where the victim walks away hardly harmed. Making somebody endure a few minutes of being uncomfortable is a small price to pay for valuable information that may save other lives. If we get one wrong every once in a while (which I don't think happened) then who really cares? At least the person was not killed.

    I don’t shed tears for the terrorists being uncomfortable.
    Libtards hate freedom unless it is the freedom to kill a child on demand for the sake of convenience. Otherwise they want the government to control every aspect of our lives.

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    Re: Waterboarding saved British lives

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    How do you know the evidence was "flimsy"?

    Besides, who really cares?
    From evidence which has emerged over time from many of those held in such prisons then released without charge by the American authorities, then who have given evidence to the authorities in their home countries like here in the UK. There's also been evidence which has leaked from the US military itself, but I don't really expect you to believe any of it as to you, America can do no wrong. Who cares? One hell of a lot of people around the world, and as an American you should care too because of the reputation it gives your country in the eyes of much of the rest of the world.

    I don't think British Bomber Command looked for evidence that the German civilians and children that they killed en massed in WWII were engaged in supporting Hitler, did they? I am sure the UK rounded up suspects in Basra and in Afghanistan with about the same level of evidence as other Coalition and NATO countries. In other words hardly a GW Bush phenomenon.
    What's what happened in bombing raids in WWII got to do with the torture of illegally held prisoners in the US?

    Water boarding is evidently not a very pleasant experience but in the scheme of warfare it is a minor distraction. My understanding is that very few were actually waterboarded and the ones that were had information that was useful.

    This is just another distraction by the Left to undermine the War on Terror. There is no significant moral issue when we are discussing a technique where the victim walks away hardly harmed. Making somebody endure a few minutes of being uncomfortable is a small price to pay for valuable information that may save other lives. If we get one wrong every once in a while (which I don't think happened) then who really cares? At least the person was not killed.

    I don’t shed tears for the terrorists being uncomfortable.
    From the reports we've seen this side of the Atlantic, I suspect it was more than "a very few" or that it was just "a few minutes of being uncomfortable"! But in case you hadn't realised Flash, very few of those held illegally by the US military authorities were ever convicted of being terrorists; certainly those British citizens who were held and subsequently cleared, some of whom were tortured, were found not guilty of terrorism by the courts here. I don't know about you, but over here we tend to believe that someone is innocent until they're actually proven guilty by a properly convened court of law!
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    Re: Waterboarding saved British lives

    Quote Originally Posted by Midas View Post
    From the reports we've seen this side of the Atlantic, I suspect it was more than "a very few" or that it was just "a few minutes of being uncomfortable"! But in case you hadn't realised Flash, very few of those held illegally by the US military authorities were ever convicted of being terrorists; certainly those British citizens who were held and subsequently cleared, some of whom were tortured, were found not guilty of terrorism by the courts here. I don't know about you, but over here we tend to believe that someone is innocent until they're actually proven guilty by a properly convened court of law!
    This is a great example of how news gets distorted by the left leaning Bush hating Europress, most notable the BBC.

    There were only three people ever waterboarded. One of them was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was a mastermind behind the 911 attacks.

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/exclusive-only-.html

    Exclusive: Only Three Have Been Waterboarded by CIA

    November 02, 2007 1:25 PM
    For all the debate over waterboarding, it has been used on only three al Qaeda figures, according to current and former U.S. intelligence officials.

    As ABC News first reported in September, waterboarding has not been used since 2003 and has been specifically prohibited since Gen. Michael Hayden took over as CIA director.


    I am sorry but it is hard for me get into a moral outrage about three people, especially when one of them the mastermind behind the attack on my country that killed 3,000 of my fellow Americans.
    Libtards hate freedom unless it is the freedom to kill a child on demand for the sake of convenience. Otherwise they want the government to control every aspect of our lives.

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    Re: Waterboarding saved British lives

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas View Post
    simulated drowning technique


    Would you support torture if it meant saving British lives?


    Accoring to a jounalist that tried waterboarding, it's not simulated drowing, it's drowning.

    No, I wouldn't support it. Anyone that does, any country that uses such methods, anyone that condones the use of torture in any way should hang their head in shame.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

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    Re: Waterboarding saved British lives

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveUK View Post
    Accoring to a jounalist that tried waterboarding, it's not simulated drowing, it's drowning.

    No, I wouldn't support it. Anyone that does, any country that uses such methods, anyone that condones the use of torture in any way should hang their head in shame.
    Trouble is George Dubya Bush wouldn't know how to do that!

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    Re: Waterboarding saved British lives

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas View Post

    Would you support torture if it meant saving British lives?
    I would support Torture, up to a point, if it saved live, not just British lives. It is easy for you armchair cowards to state it's a bad thing, but I have seen first hand what terrorists do to the innocent, I have seen children blown to pieces, die in agony screaming for their parents, I have had to watch people die because medics could not be allowed in due to secondary devices. Don't anyone here dare to tell me Torture does not work and has no place in fighting terrorism.

    HOWEVER, there has to be a legally controlled point of not crossing the line. There must be a limit to the level and types of torture used. But lets be honest here, even the Police technically use psychological torture to get suspects to talk. They lie to them and they threaten them...by definition this is torture. So those who are simply against it, take the pole out of your bottom, put on a uniform or at least visit a warzone and see what terrorists do to the innocent first hand...then you decide.

    If you still doubt, perhaps I should post some of the pictures I took in Iraq, lets see how many keep their dinner down, this is not Hollywood!
    Left for a place without a childish and spite filled Moderator with a Hitler complex. A place of democracy and common sense where questions can be asked with a Mod getting their knickers in a twist because they lack confidence and are on a power trip.

    bet this gets edited. Take care all the decent people here. have fun.

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