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Thread: Ministers declare war on degrees without prospects

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    Ministers declare war on degrees without prospects

    I am cautiously supportive of this move. In principle I would like students to improve their employability from university education rather than just sailing through on a course whcih involves little more than watching television programmes for the brain-dead such as East Enders or Coronation Street!

    The article continues:-

    Ministers today declare war on pointless degrees as they prepare to allow universities to charge fees of up to £9,000 a year.
    Universities Minister David Willetts has vowed to weed out poor quality courses which do little or nothing to improve students’ job prospects.
    He wants to rate degrees by the employment rates and salaries of graduates, handing parents and prospective students a mass of information with which to judge their value.
    Mr Willetts told the Daily Mail he also wants the best degrees to be given ‘kite marks’ by professional associations as an indication that they are rated highly by employers.
    Weaker courses would be forced to improve or wither on the vine.


    Read more: MPs declare war on pointless degress as university fees set to hit £9k a year | Mail Online

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    Re: Ministers declare war on degrees without prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by soloman View Post
    I am cautiously supportive of this move. In principle I would like students to improve their employability from university education rather than just sailing through on a course whcih involves little more than watching television programmes for the brain-dead such as East Enders or Coronation Street!

    The article continues:-

    Ministers today declare war on pointless degrees as they prepare to allow universities to charge fees of up to £9,000 a year.
    Universities Minister David Willetts has vowed to weed out poor quality courses which do little or nothing to improve students’ job prospects.
    He wants to rate degrees by the employment rates and salaries of graduates, handing parents and prospective students a mass of information with which to judge their value.
    Mr Willetts told the Daily Mail he also wants the best degrees to be given ‘kite marks’ by professional associations as an indication that they are rated highly by employers.
    Weaker courses would be forced to improve or wither on the vine.


    About time too as far as I'm concerned. In retrospect the turning of many former colleges of further education and polytechnics into universities was a retrograde step which has not only given tens of thousands of students a false hope of better employment because they have 'a degree' - a significant number of which have turned out to be commercially valueless - but it's also significantly diminished the number of vocational courses for less academically inclined students, something British industry desperately needs.

    I hope that David Willetts will go even further than simply declaring war on many of these soft degrees and will force many of the universities offering them to go back to their former status and offer practical courses geared to the real needs and abilities of both local students and local businesses.
    Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant only an intellectual could ignore it - Thomas Sowell

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    Re: Ministers declare war on degrees without prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by soloman View Post
    I am cautiously supportive of this move. In principle I would like students to improve their employability from university education rather than just sailing through on a course whcih involves little more than watching television programmes for the brain-dead such as East Enders or Coronation Street!

    The article continues:-

    Ministers today declare war on pointless degrees as they prepare to allow universities to charge fees of up to £9,000 a year.
    Universities Minister David Willetts has vowed to weed out poor quality courses which do little or nothing to improve students’ job prospects.
    He wants to rate degrees by the employment rates and salaries of graduates, handing parents and prospective students a mass of information with which to judge their value.
    Mr Willetts told the Daily Mail he also wants the best degrees to be given ‘kite marks’ by professional associations as an indication that they are rated highly by employers.
    Weaker courses would be forced to improve or wither on the vine.


    Read more: MPs declare war on pointless degress as university fees set to hit £9k a year | Mail Online
    Some ministers and some of their people should not have a fears of people educating themself rather than their hidden fear of some wrong doings that maybe expose to the world, that's why they tend to block or fraudulently tampared with knowledge and resuilt, but still fail to achieved their actual aims and objective. Educations that's funded by a government can face critism anyway, They have even been saying it that, come and get a job after your degree, i mean come on, we will shut you all up very very soon, you can download for your people but, they'll lack practicalism as we knew it.
    Reality and Proof can make a for the fixed Rule customs and principle. And Cloud Nile

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    Re: Ministers declare war on degrees without prospects

    About time. There are far too many "students" in this country doing useless courses that will get them nowhere, as an alternative to going out and working for a living.
    The previous government, Blairs New Tories are to blame, encouraging young people to take up such courses so that the government could boast having more people in uni than ever before, while artificially keeping unemployment figures down by not factoring the vast majority of 16-21 yr olds.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

    The likelyhood of you being observed is directly proportionate to the stupidity of your actions.

    Barack Hussein Obama, the president that got Bin Laden!

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    Re: Ministers declare war on degrees without prospects

    Hold on a minute though. If someone has an interest in say the history of art, and is prerpared to pay to learn about it, then why should they not be able to do so? University, indeed, life isn't just about getting a job, there is such a thing as learning for it's own sake, and developing the art of critical thinking, something that is evidently not taught at school.
    Again Daveuk you mail it with the NL bs about 50% of kids at uni, ludicrous, and there should be many more vocational courses and apprenticships, but you shouldn't throw out the baby woth the bathwater.
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. – George Orwell

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    Re: Ministers declare war on degrees without prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveUK View Post
    About time. There are far too many "students" in this country doing useless courses that will get them nowhere, as an alternative to going out and working for a living.
    The previous government, Blairs New Tories are to blame, encouraging young people to take up such courses so that the government could boast having more people in uni than ever before, while artificially keeping unemployment figures down by not factoring the vast majority of 16-21 yr olds.
    I am delighted to agree with you for a change DaveUK, where you correctly point the finger at Tony B Liar's administration for the ills of the degree system!

    But where do we go now? Many agree that just calling the old polytechnics now uiniversities simply gave credence to worthless courses leading to even more worthless pieces of paper purporting to be degrees!

    I don't necessarily disagree with tuition fees going up as long as in the process we don't encourage our best talent to work abroad once qualified to avoid repaying the potentially crippling debts they have run up in the process. Take medecine for example which I believe necessitates at least 7 years at uni; do we want our newly qualified doctors to emigrate at the end of the course? I think not!

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    Re: Ministers declare war on degrees without prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by TellMeMore View Post
    Hold on a minute though. If someone has an interest in say the history of art, and is prerpared to pay to learn about it, then why should they not be able to do so? University, indeed, life isn't just about getting a job, there is such a thing as learning for it's own sake, and developing the art of critical thinking, something that is evidently not taught at school.
    Of course people who want to learn for its own sake shouldn't be penalised, neither should those people who're quite happy to pay for a degree in whatever subject they like. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the main point to ensure that many students who leave secondary education with only mediocre 'A' levels and who certainly couldn't be classed as academic, don't enter courses for so-called 'soft' degrees which will prove pretty useless to them once they enter the world of work? A significant number of those people would benefit far more by going on a decent vocational course.

    Again Daveuk you mail it with the NL bs about 50% of kids at uni, ludicrous, and there should be many more vocational courses and apprenticships, but you shouldn't throw out the baby woth the bathwater.
    I don't think anyone is suggesting throwing the baby out with the bath water, rather making sure that any excess bath water is just drained away.
    Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant only an intellectual could ignore it - Thomas Sowell

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    Re: Ministers declare war on degrees without prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by TellMeMore View Post
    Hold on a minute though. If someone has an interest in say the history of art, and is prerpared to pay to learn about it, then why should they not be able to do so? University, indeed, life isn't just about getting a job, there is such a thing as learning for it's own sake, and developing the art of critical thinking, something that is evidently not taught at school.
    Again Daveuk you mail it with the NL bs about 50% of kids at uni, ludicrous, and there should be many more vocational courses and apprenticships, but you shouldn't throw out the baby woth the bathwater.
    There is so much wrong with further education today, that it is difficult to know where to start. Probably the biggest single mistake was to attempt to turn almost every school leaver into a university graduate, resulting in the metamorphosis of technical colleges and polytechnics into 'universities'. We still need plumbers, electricians, electrical and automotive engineers, joiners and all the other trades which are necessary to our society. These are honourable, essential and real occupations requiring study and application. However this obsession with the 'holy grail' of a university degree, even if it is in event management or travel agency, devalues not only a university education but also these essential trades by denigrating them to a lower level, beneath these 'soft' degrees of dubious value.

    Equally we are now producing far more graduates than society needs, especially as so many of the degrees are simply an extravagant indulgence. I agree with the poster who suggested that there is nothing wrong with learning for the sake of learning, provided there is no cost to the taxpayer.

    I also feel that if someone chooses to take a university course then the taxpayer should not be expected to pay for it. University loans which in most cases are paid back in the future from income, address the problem regarding the less well off affording university. I am at a loss to know why they should receive a bursary or scholarship as well. If they don't want to make this investment in their future, an investment which it is suggested will earn them an average of £100,000 more than a non-graduate, then they should seek an alternative means to a living. I am also in total disagreement with proposed penalties for paying the loan off early; this smacks of a graduate tax by another name, particularly since the interest rate will be as much as 3% over inflation!

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    Re: Ministers declare war on degrees without prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by manrow View Post
    I am delighted to agree with you for a change DaveUK, where you correctly point the finger at Tony B Liar's administration for the ills of the degree system!

    But where do we go now? Many agree that just calling the old polytechnics now uiniversities simply gave credence to worthless courses leading to even more worthless pieces of paper purporting to be degrees!

    I don't necessarily disagree with tuition fees going up as long as in the process we don't encourage our best talent to work abroad once qualified to avoid repaying the potentially crippling debts they have run up in the process. Take medecine for example which I believe necessitates at least 7 years at uni; do we want our newly qualified doctors to emigrate at the end of the course? I think not!

    I think the only credible option is a simple one. Those that can afford to go to uni, make em pay, those that can't must qualify via a scholarship system if they want to get in. The rest, get a dam job and stop pretending to be clever.
    Selection by ability should be implimented from 11 upwards in my view, it's the only way to stop the scandalous situation whereby only pushy middle class parents that can afford houses in the best catchment areas, or know how to fiddle the system, get their over privilidged kids into the best schools, while denying access to who knows how many bright youngsters from poorer backgrounds.

    I've read comments on this forum (can't remember which thread) that went something like "it's up to the parents to go that extra mile to secure their childs best chances of a good education"...........to which I say bollox! Education is not about how well off or ambitious parentsare, it's about our countries children, all of them.
    A brilliant kid who's parents are layabouts, or drunks, or just happy to amble through life without trying, shouldn't be held back by our punitive education system. There should be a system in place whereby such a kids efforts alone reward him/her, regardless of how well his/her parents perform in life.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

    The likelyhood of you being observed is directly proportionate to the stupidity of your actions.

    Barack Hussein Obama, the president that got Bin Laden!

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    Re: Ministers declare war on degrees without prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by TellMeMore View Post
    Hold on a minute though. If someone has an interest in say the history of art, and is prerpared to pay to learn about it, then why should they not be able to do so? University, indeed, life isn't just about getting a job, there is such a thing as learning for it's own sake, and developing the art of critical thinking, something that is evidently not taught at school.
    Again Daveuk you mail it with the NL bs about 50% of kids at uni, ludicrous, and there should be many more vocational courses and apprenticships, but you shouldn't throw out the baby woth the bathwater.
    There's absolutely nothing wrong with learning and educating about anything for it's own sake. I did a theology course, paid for it myself, did it in my own time, and had no intention of going into ministry.........
    There are any number of private institutions where people can be educated at their own cost on a massive range of subjects. I've tought at private institutions myself.

    I love the way Stephen Fry put it in his biography. People who claim the are not educated and make excuses for their ignorance and lack of knowledge are like tramps begging on streets made of gold. Information is everywhere, never before has such an abundance of information been available to humanity, all you have to do is pick it up.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

    The likelyhood of you being observed is directly proportionate to the stupidity of your actions.

    Barack Hussein Obama, the president that got Bin Laden!

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