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Thread: Remember Osama?

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    Remember Osama?

    Osama Bin Laden.

    Whatever happened to him?

    More to the point, whatever happened to the US pledge to capture him?

    I would be surprised, tbh, if the US are even still(or ever were) looking for him, despite that fact that Bush seemed to lay the blame for 9/11, firmly on his doorstep.

    Here is another interesting thing.

    The Taliban offered to hand him over. Twice. The US refused. Doesn't that seem a little strange to you?

    I mean, surely they would want him at all costs, no?

    Yet they turned the Taliban down!


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    Re: Remember Osama?

    I have a quote from George Tennet, former head of the CIA, in a book called "State of denial". In it Tennet told Bob Woodward that he aproached Bush in the summer of 2001 with OBL's location, opps in place to capture him, and a plan for his extraction. He was at that time in the Yemen. Tennet was told to concentrate on gathering intel on Saddam Hussien and not to bother about OBL, he was small fish compaired to Saddam.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

    The likelyhood of you being observed is directly proportionate to the stupidity of your actions.

    Barack Hussein Obama, the president that got Bin Laden!

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    Re: Remember Osama?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveUK View Post
    I have a quote from George Tennet, former head of the CIA, in a book called "State of denial". In it Tennet told Bob Woodward that he aproached Bush in the summer of 2001 with OBL's location, opps in place to capture him, and a plan for his extraction. He was at that time in the Yemen. Tennet was told to concentrate on gathering intel on Saddam Hussien and not to bother about OBL, he was small fish compaired to Saddam.
    Here is a news story, and there are many others, which prove that the Taliban offered to hand OBL over.

    It does make you wonder - given that he was blamed for 9/11, what possible reason could the US have for not taking that offer, no matter the conditions?

    Could it be that he was 'worth' more while at large (to the US), than captured?

    Bush rejects Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over | World news | guardian.co.uk

    Re Saddam.

    Do you recall all those news stories that claimed he had as many as three, and up to six, 'doubles'?

    It begs two questions;

    1) How hard do you think it would be to find someone that looked very like you or I? I would say very hard. Therefore, was the whole story a mere fabrication?

    2) If it was somehow true, then unless the US had the real Saddam's dental records or DNA, how could they be sure they captured the correct one?

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    Re: Remember Osama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Napier View Post
    Here is a news story, and there are many others, which prove that the Taliban offered to hand OBL over.

    It does make you wonder - given that he was blamed for 9/11, what possible reason could the US have for not taking that offer, no matter the conditions?

    Could it be that he was 'worth' more while at large (to the US), than captured?

    Bush rejects Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over | World news | guardian.co.uk

    Re Saddam.

    Do you recall all those news stories that claimed he had as many as three, and up to six, 'doubles'?

    It begs two questions;

    1) How hard do you think it would be to find someone that looked very like you or I? I would say very hard. Therefore, was the whole story a mere fabrication?

    2) If it was somehow true, then unless the US had the real Saddam's dental records or DNA, how could they be sure they captured the correct one?
    Indeed, at a meeting in Texas in 2000 attended by Clintons poeple, the CIA, Halibrtons Dick Chene, and the Taliban to negotiate a deal for a Turkmenistan pipe line to run through Afghanistan, the Taliban leaders offered him up, stating that OBL had become a liability to Aghanstan, and was encouraging a power struggle between the Afghan Taliban and Pakistan Taliban. According to Bob Woodward they demanded 6 billion pa in aid in exchange for the pipeline, and the lifting of sanctions and certain protectionist concessions for the hand over of OBL. All of the Talibns proposals were rejected.

    The Saddam doubles were mainly to confuse the various attempts to knock him off. In Ragi Omars book on Iraq he talks about Saddams constant paranoia, how he would never stay in the same palace or residence two nights running.
    According to Bob Woodwards book, the DNA was cross checked with DNA from his dead sons, both killed in July of 2003.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

    The likelyhood of you being observed is directly proportionate to the stupidity of your actions.

    Barack Hussein Obama, the president that got Bin Laden!

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    Re: Remember Osama?

    Interesting.

    If you ran a poll, with a good sample of Americans, let us say 10,000, what % do you speculate would actually know that the Taliban had offered to hand OBL over? My guess, based on those that I have had discourse with, would be around 0.5%. Perhaps even less.

    What % (of the same people), do you suggest would know that the Taliban have made it known that they have no interest in the Jihadist ideals of 'Al-Queda'..?

    I would suggest that it may be even less than 0.5%.

    Jack

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    Re: Remember Osama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Napier View Post
    Interesting.

    If you ran a poll, with a good sample of Americans, let us say 10,000, what % do you speculate would actually know that the Taliban had offered to hand OBL over? My guess, based on those that I have had discourse with, would be around 0.5%. Perhaps even less.

    What % (of the same people), do you suggest would know that the Taliban have made it known that they have no interest in the Jihadist ideals of 'Al-Queda'..?

    I would suggest that it may be even less than 0.5%.

    Jack
    Probably so. In my experience, the same could be said for the British. We tend to be slightly better informed in the UK, but not that much. Most people in the UK are far more interested in what Peter and Katie did next, than why we have been fighting the taliban.
    How many would know that the majority of Taliban fighters are mercanaries employed by tribal leaders, that fight purely for money and not for any Idealogical reason at all. The vast majority of them will never have met OBL or Mullah Omar, they just do as they are told.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

    The likelyhood of you being observed is directly proportionate to the stupidity of your actions.

    Barack Hussein Obama, the president that got Bin Laden!

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    Re: Remember Osama?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveUK View Post
    Most people in the UK are far more interested in what Peter and Katie did next, than why we have been fighting the taliban.
    Indeed.

    Which is why I once proposed, on here, that the electorate should have to demonstrate a fundamental grasp of politics, domestically and globally, before they are permitted to vote.

    The alternative?

    To keep things as they are now, with the Sun readers, the Peter and Katie viewers, to allow them (for they are the majority), to shape our nation. And that, my friend, is a DISASTER.

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    Re: Remember Osama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Napier View Post
    Indeed.

    Which is why I once proposed, on here, that the electorate should have to demonstrate a fundamental grasp of politics, domestically and globally, before they are permitted to vote.

    The alternative?

    To keep things as they are now, with the Sun readers, the Peter and Katie viewers, to allow them (for they are the majority), to shape our nation. And that, my friend, is a DISASTER.
    I think we had that discussion and disagreed
    I come from a background of working with and reprisenting people that didn't understand a great deal about politics, but they knew well enough to know that Margeret Thatcher wasn't going to do them any favours and voted accordingly.

    It is true however that the cynical reprobate Tony Blair foresaw it and embraced and exploited the cult of the celebrity. Who here remembers his sickly interviews on breakfast TV shows where he chatted and smiled about his wife, his kids, Gordon next door, and never once discussed a serious issue or policy? He didn't go up against the likes of Paxman or John Snow very often, prefering instead Bill Turnbull and Fiona Philips.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

    The likelyhood of you being observed is directly proportionate to the stupidity of your actions.

    Barack Hussein Obama, the president that got Bin Laden!

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    Re: Remember Osama?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveUK View Post
    I think we had that discussion and disagreed
    I come from a background of working with and reprisenting people that didn't understand a great deal about politics, but they knew well enough to know that Margeret Thatcher wasn't going to do them any favours and voted accordingly.

    It is true however that the cynical reprobate Tony Blair foresaw it and embraced and exploited the cult of the celebrity. Who here remembers his sickly interviews on breakfast TV shows where he chatted and smiled about his wife, his kids, Gordon next door, and never once discussed a serious issue or policy? He didn't go up against the likes of Paxman or John Snow very often, prefering instead Bill Turnbull and Fiona Philips.
    Yes - there was some difference in our views on that matter. All good. I wonder though, if as an 'experiment', we were to adopt my model, that is to say, that the electorate would be given a basic test, to ensure that they had at least some grasp of politics, domestically and globally, and, let us say that around a third of people passed that test (therefore, qualifying them to vote), what sort of Government do you think they might return? How would you speculate as to the change in our political culture?

    Would we it be better than what we have today?

    Would it be worst than what we have today?

    If it could be shown that it would indeed provide more quality, and therefore, a better standard of politician and Government, would you support it then?

    Oh.

    You just had to mention that BLIARster, didn't you!

    That man made my skin crawl.

    Even post Blair, he still makes my skin crawl.

    What a joke that a man who sent troops to kill and be killed, in an immoral conflict, was to end up 'special envoy' to the Middle East. Rather like giving Hitler the title of 'Jew co-ordinator'.

    After he left politics, I actually think we saw his mask slip further, and he became more unhinged.

    What of his 'defection' to the RC Church, for example? AFAIK, there is no legislation that stops anyone from being PM of this nation AND a RC. Therefore, we have to ask ourselves, why wasn't he true to his beliefs (such as they are), while he was PM, as opposed to after? Also, his ramblings about how he was more interested in religion than politics. Wow. Just wow. Perhaps he should have considered being a Priest..?

    Jack

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    Re: Remember Osama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Napier View Post
    Indeed.

    Which is why I once proposed, on here, that the electorate should have to demonstrate a fundamental grasp of politics, domestically and globally, before they are permitted to vote.

    The alternative?

    To keep things as they are now, with the Sun readers, the Peter and Katie viewers, to allow them (for they are the majority), to shape our nation. And that, my friend, is a DISASTER.
    Hmmmm, meaning the country will once again be governed by a very small elite (I know it currently is anyway but...), is that the echo of long dead riots in Trafalgar Square I can hear?
    "The people who have sacrificed their view in order to get to the top have very often left no footprints in the sands of time." Tony Benn

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