Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: The EU elephant in centre of the coalition love in

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,389
    Thanks
    605
    Thanked 192 Times in 162 Posts
    Blog Entries
    31

    The EU elephant in centre of the coalition love in

    With all of the mutual love and respect for each other at both the Lib Dem and Tory conferences one thing has been totally ignored.

    With officially just under five years to go before another general election the rabid anti EU Tories and the pro EU lib Dems have avoided mentioning any reference to EU membership. The rabid Tories have been gagged by Cameron to keep the peace. How long can this last?

    The discussion of Britain's relationship with the EU is at the moment on hold while the dogs dinner of the coalition plan and implement their politically motivated spiteful and excessive savage attacks on the welfare state under the guise of "dealing with the deficit"

    Unless the Lib Dems have abandoned their support for the EU and are prepared to follow the line of the bulk of the rank and file anti EU Tories, there will be blood on the carpet. Within the next five years there are bound to be further major negotiations between Britain and the EU on the future of its development. I would imagine that restraining the rabid Tory anti EU dogs for this long a period would be a task even slippery Cameron won't be able to avoid.
    Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"

  2. #2
    Major Sinic Guest

    Re: The EU elephant in centre of the coalition love in

    Quote Originally Posted by Expounder View Post
    With all of the mutual love and respect for each other at both the Lib Dem and Tory conferences one thing has been totally ignored.

    With officially just under five years to go before another general election the rabid anti EU Tories and the pro EU lib Dems have avoided mentioning any reference to EU membership. The rabid Tories have been gagged by Cameron to keep the peace. How long can this last?

    The discussion of Britain's relationship with the EU is at the moment on hold while the dogs dinner of the coalition plan and implement their politically motivated spiteful and excessive savage attacks on the welfare state under the guise of "dealing with the deficit"

    Unless the Lib Dems have abandoned their support for the EU and are prepared to follow the line of the bulk of the rank and file anti EU Tories, there will be blood on the carpet. Within the next five years there are bound to be further major negotiations between Britain and the EU on the future of its development. I would imagine that restraining the rabid Tory anti EU dogs for this long a period would be a task even slippery Cameron won't be able to avoid.
    It is a few months since we have crossed swords. It might be good to see you back!

    If there is to be a conflict I do agree that it may well be between the right of the Tories, and the Liberal Democrat and 'Ken Clark Tories' concerning Europe. But the whole point of government by consensus is that by negotiating and compromising, you get at least a measure of the policies you have faith in. That seems to me be why the Liberal Democrat Coalition is holding together rather more strongly than the opposition at the moment. In the meantime I think that they are more interested in addressing the monstrous economic black hole the nation was dragged into by Labour. And before you start squeaking that 'it was the bankers what did it' remember that old 'Boom and Bust Brown' had already masterminded seven annual budget deficits when the banking crisis formed the catalyst which caused the recession, and our national public debt had already increased to around two thirds of a trillion by 2007.

    We should all hope that the Coalition are successful in rescuing our economy since there is not a viable or electable opposition.

    You refer to the 'excessive and savage attacks' on the welfare state. The facts are indisputable! We borrow one in every five pounds we spend, our budget deficit is around 155 billion, our national debt is at almost 1 trillion and the current interest required to service this debt exceeds 43 billion annually. Even allowing for the cuts proposed by the Coalition this amount will still increase to over 60 billion by 2013/14. How would you as a stalwart Labour supporter, a follower of the 'Grim Reeper Brown', resolve the economic crisis. Now I am fully expecting the normal Labour 'sound bites', a series of meaningless but impressive words. But I would love to be surprised by a rational, logical financially justified answer.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    In a pub
    Posts
    7,506
    Thanks
    737
    Thanked 758 Times in 584 Posts

    Re: The EU elephant in centre of the coalition love in

    Non of our governments have EVER discussed the EU honestly with the electorate, so whats new?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    CHEPSTOW-#8-NP165ET-MONMOUTHSHIRE
    Posts
    1,987
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: The EU elephant in centre of the coalition love in

    Quote Originally Posted by Expounder View Post
    With all of the mutual love and respect for each other at both the Lib Dem and Tory conferences one thing has been totally ignored.

    With officially just under five years to go before another general election the rabid anti EU Tories and the pro EU lib Dems have avoided mentioning any reference to EU membership. The rabid Tories have been gagged by Cameron to keep the peace. How long can this last?

    The discussion of Britain's relationship with the EU is at the moment on hold while the dogs dinner of the coalition plan and implement their politically motivated spiteful and excessive savage attacks on the welfare state under the guise of "dealing with the deficit"

    Unless the Lib Dems have abandoned their support for the EU and are prepared to follow the line of the bulk of the rank and file anti EU Tories, there will be blood on the carpet. Within the next five years there are bound to be further major negotiations between Britain and the EU on the future of its development. I would imagine that restraining the rabid Tory anti EU dogs for this long a period would be a task even slippery Cameron won't be able to avoid.
    Hi,

    ineptitude is so much more attractive than outright malice, hatred of Britain, self enrichment and internicine open war amongst a claque of fools being manipulated as puppets which has bankrupt our Country in the last 13 unlucky years - all loss and no gain for the people.

    It was sickening to watch them feeding the elephants and making pets of the snakes.

    Regards,
    Greg_L-W.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,389
    Thanks
    605
    Thanked 192 Times in 162 Posts
    Blog Entries
    31

    Re: The EU elephant in centre of the coalition love in

    Pre election outright lies from both the Tories and the opportunist Lib Dems about policy intentions . Britain's credit rating has never been in question during this world wide crooked bankers and financiers created crisis. There is no need for the deficit to be repaid within one parliament, the attempt to do will see a further million and more on the dole which will rip the guts out of Britain and send benefits rates soaring defeating the object the cuts.

    The coalition has no policies. The Big Society is a complete load of sh*te, a stupid slogan thought up by a stupid person, no one knows what it means. What we do know is that the bankers and the reckless gambling financiers won't be paying their fair share to help solve the disastrous predicament they brought upon the world's economies. And, people who have worked hard for a decent pension are going to be robbed.
    Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"

  6. #6
    Major Sinic Guest

    Re: The EU elephant in centre of the coalition love in

    Quote Originally Posted by Expounder View Post
    Pre election outright lies from both the Tories and the opportunist Lib Dems about policy intentions . Britain's credit rating has never been in question during this world wide crooked bankers and financiers created crisis. There is no need for the deficit to be repaid within one parliament, the attempt to do will see a further million and more on the dole which will rip the guts out of Britain and send benefits rates soaring defeating the object the cuts.

    The coalition has no policies. The Big Society is a complete load of sh*te, a stupid slogan thought up by a stupid person, no one knows what it means. What we do know is that the bankers and the reckless gambling financiers won't be paying their fair share to help solve the disastrous predicament they brought upon the world's economies. And, people who have worked hard for a decent pension are going to be robbed.
    My gosh we don't even get the clever, trite but meaningless words which we normally get from Labour supporters; all we get is a meaningless and unjustifiable rant. But I did know that we wouldn't get a rational, logical financially justified answer, that really is a step too far for the average Labour supporter. But then, the poor dears, they can't defend the indefensible!! If I remember correctly Labour did confirm that they accepted that swingeing public sector cuts were necessary; they just didn't know where they were coming from or when to make them!!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    U.K.
    Posts
    4,806
    Thanks
    261
    Thanked 373 Times in 283 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: The EU elephant in centre of the coalition love in

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    ... But I did know that we wouldn't get a rational, logical financially justified answer, that really is a step too far for the average Labour supporter. But then, the poor dears, they can't defend the indefensible!! ...
    OK I'll give it a go although I am neither a Labour supporter nor an economist (there maybe something to be said for "you can take the girl out of the Party, but..." because I am liking most of what I hear from Ed Miliband). Isn't there a strong case to be made for the argument that we need to spend in order to get out of a recession, at least to some extent; and that drastic cuts in the wrong area at a rapid rate are going to make things worse not only in the short term but in the long term too as unemployment rises etc.? Would it not be a good idea to look at spending money on projects which improve local communities and add to the long term economic health; say building more schools for example or more loans for small businesses (to give a more Conservativecentric option)
    "The people who have sacrificed their view in order to get to the top have very often left no footprints in the sands of time." Tony Benn

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,389
    Thanks
    605
    Thanked 192 Times in 162 Posts
    Blog Entries
    31

    Re: The EU elephant in centre of the coalition love in

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    My gosh we don't even get the clever, trite but meaningless words which we normally get from Labour supporters; all we get is a meaningless and unjustifiable rant. But I did know that we wouldn't get a rational, logical financially justified answer, that really is a step too far for the average Labour supporter. But then, the poor dears, they can't defend the indefensible!! If I remember correctly Labour did confirm that they accepted that swingeing public sector cuts were necessary; they just didn't know where they were coming from or when to make them!!
    I'm sorry you think my reply was a rant but know one knows was the Big Society is about. It seems to most people that it's a slogan which represents the policy of the Tory party. If it's giving "power back to the people to run their own affairs" It's still a completely vague indeterminate statement about an ambiguous aspiration that has no meaning whatsoever.
    Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,389
    Thanks
    605
    Thanked 192 Times in 162 Posts
    Blog Entries
    31

    Re: The EU elephant in centre of the coalition love in

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins View Post
    Hi,

    ineptitude is so much more attractive than outright malice, hatred of Britain, self enrichment and internicine open war amongst a claque of fools being manipulated as puppets which has bankrupt our Country in the last 13 unlucky years - all loss and no gain for the people.

    It was sickening to watch them feeding the elephants and making pets of the snakes.

    Regards,
    Greg_L-W.
    Who cares what you think you self opinionated hyphenated jack ass. Your Tory ConDem coalition will be like the walls of jericho when people realise the extent of the damage wilfully inflicted in such a short space of time in order to further the nonsense of "The Big Society"
    Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Rural South Midlands
    Posts
    5,493
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    Blog Entries
    18

    Re: The EU elephant in centre of the coalition love in

    Quote Originally Posted by Opinionated View Post
    OK I'll give it a go although I am neither a Labour supporter nor an economist (there maybe something to be said for "you can take the girl out of the Party, but..." because I am liking most of what I hear from Ed Miliband). Isn't there a strong case to be made for the argument that we need to spend in order to get out of a recession, at least to some extent; and that drastic cuts in the wrong area at a rapid rate are going to make things worse not only in the short term but in the long term too as unemployment rises etc.? Would it not be a good idea to look at spending money on projects which improve local communities and add to the long term economic health; say building more schools for example or more loans for small businesses (to give a more Conservativecentric option)
    You're certainly right in saying that we need to spend to get out of a recession, but that has to be a highly qualified statement. If that spending involves more borrowing, is spent on wasteful bureaucratic projects, or on infrastructure projects which have an inordinately long break-even point, then it won't help - and this is of course what most of Labour's spending involved. If you spend within the productive sectors of society where there's a good ripple effect of the injected cash spreading out to both suppliers and the public, and the treasury sees a rapid return of that cash by way of income tax and VAT, it certainly can help stimulate the economy.

    Ideally, as you point out, we should be able to combine the two, however the only way that the mountain of debt that's already been accumulated can be dealt with is to reduce and claw back excessive or wasted expenditure, which is what the coalition government are now trying to do.
    Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant only an intellectual could ignore it - Thomas Sowell

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •