Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: Should the taxpayer bribe fat people and smokers

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South UK
    Posts
    228
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Should the taxpayer bribe fat people and smokers

    Taxpayer should fund 'bribes' for obese and smokers - Telegraph

    Should we be paying people to stop smoking and lose weight?

    Personally I don't think so, while I understand the reasoning behind the idea, i don't agree with it. If they are such a burden on the NHS then make them take out some form of supplementary health insurance.
    The richest man is not he who has the most but he who needs the least.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Rural South Midlands
    Posts
    5,493
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    Blog Entries
    18

    Re: Should the taxpayer bribe fat people and smokers

    Quote Originally Posted by ryoden View Post
    Taxpayer should fund 'bribes' for obese and smokers - Telegraph

    Should we be paying people to stop smoking and lose weight?

    Personally I don't think so, while I understand the reasoning behind the idea, i don't agree with it. If they are such a burden on the NHS then make them take out some form of supplementary health insurance.
    The report said that such rewards could be "an effective way of encouraging people to change their unhealthy ways." They could equally be a way for the more canny to meet whatever requirements there are for just as long as necessary to claim their 'reward', then blow it all on what they've been depriving themselves of in order to get it! Or am I just being cynical?

    I'd far rather look at problems like this from the other end and impose deterrents by way of higher taxes and regulations on what can and can't be included in unhealthy preprepared and prepackaged foods which contain far more saturated fats, sugars, salt and other additives than are necessary. That would be a great incentive for food producers to change the ingredients in many of their products or drop them altogether and I'm sure would have a far more beneficial effect on the nation's health. Perhaps I should add that any move like this has to go hand in hand with proper education though, a topic on its own. I know I'm generally against much regulation and government interference, but where it's well thought out and effectively targeted it can prove to be highly beneficial to all.

    I'd also support the idea of warning far more people who cause their own health problems by way of their diet or smoking/drinking habits that the NHS will no longer pay for treatment of illnesses directly attributable to their lifestyle unless they've very deliberately changed those habits. I know this is already done to an extent, but it seems only in extreme cases, but it should really be brought much further down the scale. "Your choice to smoke, but remember that you won't get NHS treatment for any lung or heart problems unless you've given it up for at least 12 months before the problem occurred" sort of thing. Hard, yes, but it seems to me to be the only kind of action that many will understand.
    Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant only an intellectual could ignore it - Thomas Sowell

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    In a pub
    Posts
    7,506
    Thanks
    737
    Thanked 758 Times in 584 Posts

    Re: Should the taxpayer bribe fat people and smokers

    Quote Originally Posted by Midas View Post
    The report said that such rewards could be "an effective way of encouraging people to change their unhealthy ways." They could equally be a way for the more canny to meet whatever requirements there are for just as long as necessary to claim their 'reward', then blow it all on what they've been depriving themselves of in order to get it! Or am I just being cynical?

    I'd far rather look at problems like this from the other end and impose deterrents by way of higher taxes and regulations on what can and can't be included in unhealthy preprepared and prepackaged foods which contain far more saturated fats, sugars, salt and other additives than are necessary. That would be a great incentive for food producers to change the ingredients in many of their products or drop them altogether and I'm sure would have a far more beneficial effect on the nation's health. Perhaps I should add that any move like this has to go hand in hand with proper education though, a topic on its own. I know I'm generally against much regulation and government interference, but where it's well thought out and effectively targeted it can prove to be highly beneficial to all.

    I'd also support the idea of warning far more people who cause their own health problems by way of their diet or smoking/drinking habits that the NHS will no longer pay for treatment of illnesses directly attributable to their lifestyle unless they've very deliberately changed those habits. I know this is already done to an extent, but it seems only in extreme cases, but it should really be brought much further down the scale. "Your choice to smoke, but remember that you won't get NHS treatment for any lung or heart problems unless you've given it up for at least 12 months before the problem occurred" sort of thing. Hard, yes, but it seems to me to be the only kind of action that many will understand.
    The NHS as it is at the moment is a public health service for all. If you are to refuse treatment to any given section of society then they may as well get rid of it all together (I would). To pay bribes is a nonsense,I cant see how they would monitor it.

  4. #4
    Major Sinic Guest

    Re: Should the taxpayer bribe fat people and smokers

    This really is ridiculous thinking to pay someone to do what is so obviously in their own interests, and something that they should be doing anyway. We will be paying peoples subscriptions to Slimmers World and Weight Watchers at this rate.

    It is straightforward bribery and is akin to paying teenage thugs with convictions for aggravated assault a reward for not beating people up, or convicted shop lifters a reward to stop thieving, or young teenage slappers with numerous kids by numerous fathers a reward for using a condom, or habitual drunks or drug addicts a reward for giving up. And all paid for by the long suffering taxpayer.

    I completely agree with Midas that anyone who requires medical care from the NHS as a result of their own abuse of their own bodies, should not only not be given a reward, but should pay for such treatments or suffer the consequences. Let people start to take responsibility for themselves and their own lifestyle or face the consequences and let us get rid of the nanny state. I am fed up to the back teeth with the army of whining whinging scroungers, skulking around our society, who always want something for nothing.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Rural South Midlands
    Posts
    5,493
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    Blog Entries
    18

    Re: Should the taxpayer bribe fat people and smokers

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetwalker View Post
    The NHS as it is at the moment is a public health service for all. If you are to refuse treatment to any given section of society then they may as well get rid of it all together (I would). To pay bribes is a nonsense,I cant see how they would monitor it.
    Well, I can't say I'm altogether enamoured with the NHS myself, although I think a much more basic service is something which should be provided by the state, to be topped up with private cover, although that's a different topic, however there are already precedents in refusing treatment for either very heavy smokers or grossly overweight people, especially if they need transplant surgery. Admittedly it's on medical grounds, but still, it's a start, and as Major Sinic says, people should take responsibility for themselves and their own lifestyle or face the consequences.
    Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant only an intellectual could ignore it - Thomas Sowell

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    In a pub
    Posts
    7,506
    Thanks
    737
    Thanked 758 Times in 584 Posts

    Re: Should the taxpayer bribe fat people and smokers

    Quote Originally Posted by Midas View Post
    Well, I can't say I'm altogether enamoured with the NHS myself, although I think a much more basic service is something which should be provided by the state, to be topped up with private cover, although that's a different topic, however there are already precedents in refusing treatment for either very heavy smokers or grossly overweight people, especially if they need transplant surgery. Admittedly it's on medical grounds, but still, it's a start, and as Major Sinic says, people should take responsibility for themselves and their own lifestyle or face the consequences.
    As someone who decided a long time ago not to subject myself to the horrors of the NHS and take private insurance I whole heartedly agree

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Somewhere in the Midlands
    Posts
    916
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 17 Times in 10 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Should the taxpayer bribe fat people and smokers

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    anyone who requires medical care from the NHS as a result of their own abuse of their own bodies, should not only not be given a reward, but should pay for such treatments or suffer the consequences. Let people start to take responsibility for themselves and their own lifestyle or face the consequences and let us get rid of the nanny state.
    Where would you draw the line? What if someone had a motorcycle accident that was their fault, would that be abuse of their own bodies? Guy falls over drunk, is that abuse, even though alcohol is only the indirect cause? When you get into this area it doesn't take a genius to see that an underfunded and admin-heavy NHS would seek to not take the financial burden as often as possible. We'd end up adopting a privatised medical industry by stealth. Add the crazy amounts of health and safety legislation passed in the last 10 years and any medical administrator worth his salt could find ways of attributing blame for an injury to the person themselves. It be a slippery slope.

    If, and its a big if, we keep the NHS and the Tories don't do away with it completey (and don't think they aren't planning to) the focus needs to be on education and labeling. I'm frequently astounded by the amount of sugar and saturated fats that make their way into foods specifically aimed at children. Its not unusual for a packet of biscuits to contain 130-150% of an ADULTS guidline amount of sugar. I dred to think of parents letting their kids eat the whole lot. Its the same with frozen foods and even worse in soft drinks. Nutritional education needs to make its way into schools and yes people can argue the kids should already be getting this from home, but thats simply not happening. Investing in those types of initiatives, rather than buying off pregnant women to stop smoking (I mean really, WFT is that about), will see the whole country healthier as a result, and a better funded and less burdened NHS.
    Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time.
    E. B. White

    "
    To be honest, you think a/c jump the fence, I say the whole college jump the fence"
    The wonder that is Angelcountry
    "If we're going to have a police state, at least orgainise it properly!"
    Guy Outside the Chilcott Enquiry as he was led away by police for causing a 'disturbance' (thanks to LA I now know his name is Michael Culver)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    CHEPSTOW-#8-NP165ET-MONMOUTHSHIRE
    Posts
    1,987
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Should the taxpayer bribe fat people and smokers

    Quote Originally Posted by ryoden View Post
    Taxpayer should fund 'bribes' for obese and smokers - Telegraph

    Should we be paying people to stop smoking and lose weight?

    Personally I don't think so, while I understand the reasoning behind the idea, i don't agree with it. If they are such a burden on the NHS then make them take out some form of supplementary health insurance.
    Hi,

    surely this is the simplest question on the forum at the moment.

    NO.

    Since when is it the business of Government to ban bad habits and make slow suicide illegal - as long as it is not damaging third parties unavoidably.

    Why is it illegal to die yet medical care gets ever more shoddy past 60?

    NHS should provide ONLY Health care NOT life style support.

    Regards,
    Greg_L-W.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    CHEPSTOW-#8-NP165ET-MONMOUTHSHIRE
    Posts
    1,987
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Should the taxpayer bribe fat people and smokers

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    This really is ridiculous thinking to pay someone to do what is so obviously in their own interests, and something that they should be doing anyway. We will be paying peoples subscriptions to Slimmers World and Weight Watchers at this rate.

    It is straightforward bribery and is akin to paying teenage thugs with convictions for aggravated assault a reward for not beating people up, or convicted shop lifters a reward to stop thieving, or young teenage slappers with numerous kids by numerous fathers a reward for using a condom, or habitual drunks or drug addicts a reward for giving up. And all paid for by the long suffering taxpayer.

    I completely agree with Midas that anyone who requires medical care from the NHS as a result of their own abuse of their own bodies, should not only not be given a reward, but should pay for such treatments or suffer the consequences. Let people start to take responsibility for themselves and their own lifestyle or face the consequences and let us get rid of the nanny state. I am fed up to the back teeth with the army of whining whinging scroungers, skulking around our society, who always want something for nothing.
    Hi,

    I like many became a smoker oblivious to any risk in the days when politicians, nurses, news personalities, doctors and sportsmen smoked even on TV and at work. Doctors openly smoked in hospitals and surgeries.

    I'd been smoking cigarettes from about1958 and was without a doubt an unwitting adict even in the army all ranks smoked openly.

    Then I collapsed a lung and it HURT - a doctor said to me 'you think this is painful try lung cancer have you thought of giving up smoking?'
    There is something compelling in being in ICU connected up to drains and vacuum pumps on pethadine having had an op in reception because you would be dead if they took the time to get to a surgery!

    I did point out that spontaneous pnemothorax happened mostly to male caucasian non smokers above average fitness under 25 - he laughed and said - yep but lung cancer ALWAYS happens to smokers with a few notable exceptions.

    I gave up cigarettes as I saw the point, but I was an adict - so for almost 30 years I smoked cigars and laughed and claimed smoking 1/2 coronas I'd get a better class of lung cancer - but I was still an adict.

    An adict created BY the society which positioned a cigarette machine at every junction on the edge of the school grounds and did VERY little about smoking and most of the masters smoked.

    The same at Peninsular Barracks (I'm never sure if it should be peninslar after the War or peninsula after where it happened!) fag machines and the NAAFI etc. Then at Beaconsfield The NAAFI at Sandhurs machines, the shop and the NAAFI - I guess by then you are HOOKED.

    Should the NHS have treated my major organ cancer when I presented with symptoms in Nov-1998? Or should they have said bog off you are a smoker and left me to die?

    Fortunately they did what they could and smking cigars even today they are uncertain what caused the Kidney Cancer - I still laugh and say I got a better class of cancer either way QUIT NOW IF YOU ARE A SMOKER - Phone me I'll help.

    I gave up the day I went into hospital to get cut in half but don't wait till then statistics are against you!

    I've paid for my smoking almost every waking moment since my op. and it stops me sleeping much of the time too - hence I post through the night!

    I also run a casual help line for urological cancers 'cos I learned a bit about them first hand and I've learned a lot about dying since and helping people on that journey - we're all going to do it but DON'T choose cancer QUIT SMOKING NOW.

    That is all the bribe the NHS should give - if you wish to continue and choose to die they should treat you.

    People dying cost the state about 100,000 whether they do it in a hurry smeared down the tarmac, time and decrepitude or terminal illness it is about the same.

    The government makes a loss if you are under 40 as you get out of paying 25 years of tax and they make a loss as you pass 65 'cos then they have had to pay you back some of your money as pension.

    If you can't QUIT give me a shout as amongst other things I supply 'e'Cigarettes with Niall & Peter who have the UK franchise and I help out as a friend.

    By the way it saves you loadsa dosh too!

    If you want details use 'e'Mail not PM I'm useless at checking and responding to PM ;-(

    Regards,
    Greg_L-W.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    U.K.
    Posts
    4,806
    Thanks
    261
    Thanked 373 Times in 283 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Should the taxpayer bribe fat people and smokers

    I agree with Greg and his Doctor, of course I went from one group to the other, but hey ho! What I will say to try and balance the argument a bit, is that the amount of tax a person has paid on every packet of fags they have purchased should be taken into account when we discuss how worthy of treatment they are.
    Also, hasn't education regarding smoking had a positive effect, I thought that the numbers taking it up had been reduced in the last few years.
    "The people who have sacrificed their view in order to get to the top have very often left no footprints in the sands of time." Tony Benn

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •