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Thread: Clegg tax war on the better off

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    Clegg tax war on the better off

    Initially the headline looked like a good idea, but when you read how wide-ranging it will be you may think again?

    Clegg tax war on better-off: Tens of thousands face 'bully boy' investigations in new crackdown | Mail Online

    Having said that it is vital that taxation is fair and spread through all sections of society, so maybe we will have to learn to accept these apparently draconian measures?

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    Re: Clegg tax war on the better off

    It's about time. The poorest in society have long been stigmatized by the media if they step out of line with regard to benefits etc, where as tax dodgers have had an easy ride.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

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    Re: Clegg tax war on the better off

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveUK View Post
    It's about time. The poorest in society have long been stigmatized by the media if they step out of line with regard to benefits etc, where as tax dodgers have had an easy ride.
    Statistically there's significantly more tax dodging and benefit fiddling which goes on in the lower and lower-middle sections of the income scale than in any other part of it, both in volume and in total cost to the exchequer. The government is quite right in starting to clamp down in that part of society where most of the problems lie.
    Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant only an intellectual could ignore it - Thomas Sowell

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    Re: Clegg tax war on the better off

    Quote Originally Posted by Midas View Post
    Statistically there's significantly more tax dodging and benefit fiddling which goes on in the lower and lower-middle sections of the income scale than in any other part of it, both in volume and in total cost to the exchequer. The government is quite right in starting to clamp down in that part of society where most of the problems lie.
    I don't doubt that there is considerable fiddling going on at the lower and lower-middle levels of the income scale.

    The battle remains unequal though because the rich can afford to employ advisers who ensure their money is secreted well away from the prying eyes of the revenue.

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    Re: Clegg tax war on the better off

    Quote Originally Posted by manrow View Post
    I don't doubt that there is considerable fiddling going on at the lower and lower-middle levels of the income scale.

    The battle remains unequal though because the rich can afford to employ advisers who ensure their money is secreted well away from the prying eyes of the revenue.
    Hear hear.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

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    Re: Clegg tax war on the better off

    Quote Originally Posted by manrow View Post
    I don't doubt that there is considerable fiddling going on at the lower and lower-middle levels of the income scale.

    The battle remains unequal though because the rich can afford to employ advisers who ensure their money is secreted well away from the prying eyes of the revenue.
    That's true in one respect, however fiddling taxes and benefits is breaking the law, whereas tax avoidance is perfectly legal. Putting personal feelings or political inclinations aside, why should someone who carries out a perfectly legal manoeuvre, regardless of whether they've paid for expert advice or not, be penalised whilst, or more than, the person who is is doing something illegal isn't?
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    Re: Clegg tax war on the better off

    Quote Originally Posted by Midas View Post
    That's true in one respect, however fiddling taxes and benefits is breaking the law, whereas tax avoidance is perfectly legal. Putting personal feelings or political inclinations aside, why should someone who carries out a perfectly legal manoeuvre, regardless of whether they've paid for expert advice or not, be penalised whilst, or more than, the person who is is doing something illegal isn't?
    You are quite right Midas in the legality stakes.

    My thrust was essentially that laws ideally would have similar proportional impact upon all income earners, the problem being that those at the bottom of the pile cannot afford the advice. Governments continue to enact such inept regulations that almost always if you have the money you can buy a better tax efficient solution; that in my opinion is not equable.

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    Re: Clegg tax war on the better off

    Quote Originally Posted by Midas View Post
    That's true in one respect, however fiddling taxes and benefits is breaking the law, whereas tax avoidance is perfectly legal. Putting personal feelings or political inclinations aside, why should someone who carries out a perfectly legal manoeuvre, regardless of whether they've paid for expert advice or not, be penalised whilst, or more than, the person who is is doing something illegal isn't?

    I take you point, but the problem is we've heard all these threats about closing tax loopholes and crack downs before, all to no avail. The truth of the matter is, the people at the lower end of the scale are easier to catch. Every time the government brings in half a**** measures to tackle tax avoidance, the accountants and financial experts just find new loopholes.
    I would bet good money that if the average benfits fraudster thats signing and earning, or not declairing their full income and getting tax credits, housing benefit etc, could afford a decent accountant, they'd find a way to make what they are doing legal.

    I think that the heart of the matter, which I think Nick Clegg is getting at is that It's long been the case that if some unfortunate gets caught fiddling 50 quid here and there, they'll be prosecuted, probably be demonised in the local and national press, and stigmatized.
    Where as some clever cloggs that can afford a clever accountant the finds ways of squiraling tens of thousands away gets a nod and wink from his mates and a "f*** em mate, it's your money, why give it to the tax man".
    While it does cost the country a vast ammount of money, the average benefit or tax credit fiddler is not driving around in a tax deductable car, or having tax deductable holiday in exotic places. They are probably just making life a little more bareable.
    If it's fair to target and crack down on the poorest, then it's also fair to crack down effectiely on tax avoidance.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

    The likelyhood of you being observed is directly proportionate to the stupidity of your actions.

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    Re: Clegg tax war on the better off

    My favoured solution on tax would be to abandon income tax in favour of purchase tax.Those who spend more (the rich) pay more, those who spend little pay less. The tax system is too complicated with many anomolies ,loopholes and variables for different people.
    You want to but it ? pay tax on it .Everyones then equal

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    Re: Clegg tax war on the better off

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetwalker View Post
    My favoured solution on tax would be to abandon income tax in favour of purchase tax.Those who spend more (the rich) pay more, those who spend little pay less. The tax system is too complicated with many anomolies ,loopholes and variables for different people.
    You want to but it ? pay tax on it .Everyones then equal
    In reality it doesn't work though. Whenever VAT (purchase tax) is increased, it impacts on the poorest the most.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

    The likelyhood of you being observed is directly proportionate to the stupidity of your actions.

    Barack Hussein Obama, the president that got Bin Laden!

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