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Thread: Tony Blair's moral clarity: West should fight evil killers

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    Lightbulb Tony Blair's moral clarity: West should fight evil killers



    Tony Blair's moral clarity: West should have the confidence to fight evil killers. (YouTube)

    1st September 2010. The BBC broadcasts Tony Blair interviewed by Andrew Marr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Marr
    After 9/11 you thought there was a sort of world war between Islamism and the West. however we define it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Blair
    Well this extremist strain within Islamism, yeah
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Marr
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Blair
    This is a global phenomenon and the sooner we understand that and deal with it and recognise and this is the big choice ..
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Marr
    And has the West got what it takes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Blair
    Well I hope so - but it's got to recover its confidence in itself and its got to realise
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Marr
    Partly so badly knocked over Iraq of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Blair
    Well but it shouldn't lose its confidence over that. The fact is the reason it has been tough in Iraq is that people are driving car bombs into crowded markets and trying to kill the first 20, 30, 40, 50 people they see. That is evil and wrong and we should be standing up against it and fighting it. We shouldn't be sitting there and saying 'Well maybe these people are just like that and therefore we should let them got on with it.'
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Marr
    And similarly in Afghanistan where there are attacks going on during the elections people who are trying to get female candidates elected in Afghanistan and the same thing going on. We have to finish the job. The West has to finish that job before we pull out or disaster?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Blair
    Well we have to finish the job, yeah, for sure. Look what did the Taliban, just a few days back, they're going to stone a couple to death 'cause they are in love! !!! You can't compromise with that. You've got to take it on!
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Marr
    So we have a moral obligation in our part of the world to change that society, to ensure that society ..
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Blair
    We actually have a reason of self interest. I mean there is a, obviously you can't see some of the things they do like executing teachers for teaching girls and not feel a sense of moral compulsion but that's not actually the principle reason - it is a self-interested reason.
    This movement is still there. It is, I'm afraid, still strong. It has a narrative that reaches into a far larger part of the population that is to do with the West and Islam and so on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Marr
    But isn't it partly so strong because of the nature of our response because we went in so heavy, we went in so hard?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Blair
    That's the debate Andrew. That is absolutely the heart of the debate and the West's got to resolve this debate. Is the reason why they are like that because of us or is it actually because of them?
    Now, my view in the end is we should stop being in a situation where we think we've caused this. We haven't caused this. If you're a Muslim in this country in Britain you've got greater freedom than many Muslims in Muslim countries. I mean it's nonsense!

    I know it is difficult. It will take a long time but if we in Europe decide the pain is too great to stand alongside America that's fine but we'll find in the end we're obliged to deal with it at a later time and in an even more difficult and acute way and if Iran ends up with a nuclear weapon do not be under any doubt at all that will change the entire balance of power in the most troubled region of the world.

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    Re: Tony Blair's moral clarity: West should fight evil killers

    I always hated Tony Blair and perhaps the fact that it was his government that was in power when I became old enough to understand what politics was all about has helped to form the views I have today. Nevertheless, this is the best interview I've ever seen him give and I can say I agree with what he said about Iran. They are the ones to watch and God help us all if they ever get their hands on a nuclear weapon.

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    Re: Tony Blair's moral clarity: West should fight evil killers

    Quote Originally Posted by 5K3PT1C View Post
    I always hated Tony Blair and perhaps the fact that it was his government that was in power when I became old enough to understand what politics was all about has helped to form the views I have today. Nevertheless, this is the best interview I've ever seen him give and I can say I agree with what he said about Iran. They are the ones to watch and God help us all if they ever get their hands on a nuclear weapon.
    Best interview? Hmmm, I suspect he was largely saying what he had to in support of the actions he, and Labour, took whilst in power. Don't get me wrong, I'm as appalled as anyone at what goes on in some of these extreme Islamic countries, however having travelled extensively in the Middle East over many years as well as to Iran itself, the vast majority of people that I've met - and I will qualify this by saying they've been mainly the better educated who know the realities of life in both the east and west - are themselves against most of the excesses of Islam; this applied as much in Iran as in anywhere else.

    If you strip away the imperialistic aims of the USA you're left with a situation where two conflicting belief systems are each trying to dominate the other, both of them believing absolutely that they are right and the other is wrong because that's they way that they've been taught since almost the day they were born. The tragedy of it is that, within their own respective cultures, both are right, but that's the divisiveness of religion for you!

    As for what to do for the best, I really don't know, although pulling back and stopping interfering in other people's cultures would be a good start - as much as we might think they're wrong, to them their belief they're right is just as strong as our own, and that will always lead to conflict - and far from trying to isolate those countries, I'm sure we'd be far better served by trying to have even closer ties with them and starting the slow process of education through trade and commerce with the people who have much of the behind the scenes power and influence. It's worked for centuries in the past and there's no reason I can't see it still working, and being far less costly too.
    Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant only an intellectual could ignore it - Thomas Sowell

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    Re: Tony Blair's moral clarity: West should fight evil killers

    As I have stated many times I am a non interventionists who thinks we should mind our own business a whole lot more than we do now. I think the only reason we are at war with the Muslims is because we took sides in the Israeli-Arab conflict when it really didnít have anything to do with our security.

    However, I would like to point out a little Euro hypocrisy.

    In other threads you Euros argued hard that it was the duty of the west to remove Hitler from power.

    You probably thought that because he was bombing your cities at one time. You conveniently forgot that you were the ones went to war with Hitler by getting into some stupid agreement with Poland.

    Since the only thing these Muslims have done is set off a bomb or two in your subway and attack your closest ally then you donít quite have the moral conviction to justify kicking their ass.

    I think that you really donít have convictions on things like that. If the bad guys are a threat to you then you will come up with some justification for fighting then. If you donít perceive them to be a threat then you donít understand the moral clarity. Blair perceives them to be a threat.
    Libtards hate freedom unless it is the freedom to kill a child on demand for the sake of convenience. Otherwise they want the government to control every aspect of our lives.

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    Re: Tony Blair's moral clarity: West should fight evil killers

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    As I have stated many times I am a non interventionists who thinks we should mind our own business a whole lot more than we do now. I think the only reason we are at war with the Muslims is because we took sides in the Israeli-Arab conflict when it really didn’t have anything to do with our security.

    However, I would like to point out a little Euro hypocrisy.

    In other threads you Euros argued hard that it was the duty of the west to remove Hitler from power.

    You probably thought that because he was bombing your cities at one time. You conveniently forgot that you were the ones went to war with Hitler by getting into some stupid agreement with Poland.

    Since the only thing these Muslims have done is set off a bomb or two in your subway and attack your closest ally then you don’t quite have the moral conviction to justify kicking their ass.

    I think that you really don’t have convictions on things like that. If the bad guys are a threat to you then you will come up with some justification for fighting then. If you don’t perceive them to be a threat then you don’t understand the moral clarity. Blair perceives them to be a threat.
    I think we should be getting involved. Wether we try to bring these people (by which I mean radical Muslims) into the international community or freeze them out is less important that the fact that we should at least take some action. If we do nothing then we can just look forward to yet another war. You will not have the option of "not getting involved" when an Iranian nuclear missile lands on your roof.

    I've read your comments in the relevant thread about world war 2 and it's obvious that you have a fundamental lack of understanding of the numerous reasons behind our (and your) involvement in it. It wasn't just about a "stupid" agreement with Poland - we wouldn't allow one nation to threaten the sovereignty of another, but that's a discussion for another thread I think.

    We have been fighting with Muslims since before the crusades so don't presume that the only reason for the current situation (Islamic terrorists attacking the UK and the US) is the US led invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm not exactly an expert on the crusades but I know enough to know that both sides have been fighting for hundreds of years. I really don't see how you can call our actions in dealing with Islam hypocrisy.

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    Re: Tony Blair's moral clarity: West should fight evil killers

    Its a great pitty that Anthony Blair will never be tried for war crimes, along with GWB and the other leaders of the coalition.


    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    As I have stated many times I am a non interventionists who thinks we should mind our own business a whole lot more than we do now. I think the only reason we are at war with the Muslims is because we took sides in the Israeli-Arab conflict when it really didnít have anything to do with our security.

    However, I would like to point out a little Euro hypocrisy.

    In other threads you Euros argued hard that it was the duty of the west to remove Hitler from power.

    You probably thought that because he was bombing your cities at one time. You conveniently forgot that you were the ones went to war with Hitler by getting into some stupid agreement with Poland.

    Since the only thing these Muslims have done is set off a bomb or two in your subway and attack your closest ally then you donít quite have the moral conviction to justify kicking their ass.

    I think that you really donít have convictions on things like that. If the bad guys are a threat to you then you will come up with some justification for fighting then. If you donít perceive them to be a threat then you donít understand the moral clarity. Blair perceives them to be a threat.

    This is nonsense. The lead up to WW2 started long before the breaching of the Munich Agreement by Hitler. In fact it had more to do with the persistent breaches of the Treaty of Versailles, of which the USA was the main architect and signituary. Despite the US declaration that they would enforce the treaty, Germany repeatedy violated it, especially after the rise of corperal Hitler. The US continued to give huge loans to Germany in the full knowledge that they were re-arming. The US saw the rise of fascism in Europe as a very convenient and effective bullwark against the bolshevik revolution in Russia.
    There's no escaping the fact that the US so called "none intervenion, nuteral" policy after 1939 was both cowardly and cynical.


    You say that the US is at war with Muslims, it's rather telling that the only Muslims you are at war with, or threatening war against are the states that just happen to have vast oil and mineral wealth. There doesn't seem to be any willingness to go to war against muslims in the Yemen or Somalia, considered now by the CIA and Obama the biggest threat to US security (well, derr, well done sherlock, the UK media has been saying that for years).

    Since the only thing these Muslims have done is set off a bomb or two in your subway and attack your closest ally then you donít quite have the moral conviction to justify kicking their ass
    What an outrageously facile comment. The "muslims" that bombed our subways did so two years after our illegal inavasion and occupation of Iraq, and they came from towns in the North of England, not Iraq. The people that attacked the US did not come from Iraq, were not sponsered by Iraq, or had any connection to Iraq.

    BTW, despite your rantings that your country shoul not interviene, and that it's not "your responsibility to save peoples asses"........yes it is. The US are signituaries to the genocide convention, which was long overdue, ratifying it in 1987. This agreement requires member states to not only punish genocide, but to prevent it. Ironically, the US is lucky that there was no western power capable of enacting the genocide convention in the 1960s and 70s, otherwise the US would have been in deep trouble seeing as you were guilty of it in IndoChina.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

    The likelyhood of you being observed is directly proportionate to the stupidity of your actions.

    Barack Hussein Obama, the president that got Bin Laden!

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    Re: Tony Blair's moral clarity: West should fight evil killers

    Hi,

    DaveUK - may I suggest you ignore the vile little man - he has made it abundantly clear he is without ethics, principles or a moral compass.

    His anti Americanism in the manner in which he damages that great country is palpable and his understanding of christianity makes paganism look like the born again movement.

    An abuser, a bully and a man without humility and compassion on any count.

    Did I say I have only contempt for bullies who are by their nature merely cowards.

    Regards,
    Greg_L-W.

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    Re: Tony Blair's moral clarity: West should fight evil killers

    Hi,

    as for the interview - it comes across to me as an arrogant, evil biggot without principles or morality seeking to justify the obscenity that has been his life.

    A desperate attempt to justify Crimes Against Humanity.

    I have some empathy with the placard in a demo to expose the vile man which read

    HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU HAVE TO LIE

    HOW MANY CHILDREN HAD TO DIE

    GET SOME ROPE

    AND HANG HIM HIGH


    I do feel a very formal and very clear cut trial would be appropriate BEFORE anyone considers execution!

    I have no doubt that it can be clearly proven that Tony Blair and several of his cabinet and staff are guilty of crimes against humanity.

    Regards,
    Greg_L-W.

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    Re: Tony Blair's moral clarity: West should fight evil killers

    Hi Greg. I think you are spot on in both of the points you've made here.
    It baffles me as to why people who are diametrically opposed politicallay (as we clearly are) and phylosophically cannot express their differences in a professional and civil manner. I guess I am guilty of affording this person far too much time in terms of rebutting his ludicrous statements on just about everything from politics, culture, history and religion.
    As I am sure you are aware, I have very deep working class socialist roots and political beliefs, I am very proud of my country, it's culture, most of it's history (Britian as much as any country has a shameful side to it's history), and my fellow countrymen. I take great offense to the kind of idiotic, ill informed history revission and denial that this person is persistently guilty of.
    I do take your point though.

    As for the pariah Mr Blair, he fully and fairly deserves to be the most hated British politician in modern history. Prior to his riegn of terror, IMO that dubious honor belonged to Margeret Thatcher. Blair has made her look like she was only playing at ruining this country.
    Much is made of his shameful and criminal involvement in the Iraq affair, and rightly so. It shouldn't be forgotten though that during his premiership, he destroyed this countries finances, plundered hard working peoples pensions and savings, vastly increased the social gap between rich and poor, fiddled and manipulated crime figures, sold off our public assets to our enemies, encouraged and facilitated the mass exodus of manufacturing, created a none producing, unsustainable paper economy, retadred and dumbed down our once great education system, vastly increased the size of the state, destroyed any hope of home ownership for the majority of young people and condemned them to be at the mercy of private landlords for the whole of their working life, sucked up to the city and celebraties, manipulated our once free press, presided over the demise of left/right/liberal adversarial political debate, decimated his own party so that it's virtually unrecognisable as a Labour party, allowed pernicious Americanized trash culture to infest and infect our living rooms and our children, allowed fundamentalism back into our once almost universal secular class rooms............

    The charges against Blair are many, he has been a disaster for this country.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

    The likelyhood of you being observed is directly proportionate to the stupidity of your actions.

    Barack Hussein Obama, the president that got Bin Laden!

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    Re: Tony Blair's moral clarity: West should fight evil killers

    Hi,

    in what way do our politics differ or do you make assumptions?

    What is working class? I have worked all my life!

    My Grandfather was a pony boy at 10 underground before WWI and an Old contemptible etc. etc.

    I am a Libertarian, moral, small c conservative socialist - I am thus a natural Tory as they are the ONLY socialist party in my lifetime.

    Thatcher was right when she said of Labour's concept of Socialism with a showy large S:
    "The trouble with their Socialism is it soon runs out of other peoples' money"

    I voted against Thatcher as she was shrill, strident and on many issues VERY stupid ie The EU.

    Regards,
    Greg_L-W.

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