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Thread: Massive turnout for Protest the Pope first event.

  1. #1
    PaulKing Guest

    Massive turnout for Protest the Pope first event.

    News item on Protest the Pope debate (Sept. 1st) in London.

    First Protest the Pope event (a debate on the Papal visit at Conway Hall) sent a clear message to the Catholic apologists involved. The UK will not tolerate hate cults and does not easily forgive child abuse. The massive crowd exceeded all expectations and was in no mood to hear feeble excuses and hypocritical rhetoric.

    A Catholic spokesman said: -

    "The sobering fact is that Protest the Pope have whipped up and created an anti-Catholic mob which they plan to set loose on Pope Benedict and Catholics attending the papal events. The police are going to have their hands full protecting us."

    No. It is your crimes not Protest the Pope which is responsible for the anger. You made your bed now lie in it.

    With comments like this how do they expect people to react?

    A leading adviser to the Archbishop of Westminster has blamed abortion and gay rights for turning Britain into a “selfish, hedonistic wasteland” which has become “the geopolitical epicentre of the culture of death”.

    AND
    Mexico City Archdiocese spokesman Hugo Valdemar : -

    He affirmed, “I do not know of any of you who would like to be adopted by a pair of lesbians or a pair of fags.”

    The Vatican seems to think they can set them selves up above the law, can ignore public opinion, can flaunt their contempt for REAL morals and justice and the public will just sit still and do nothing.

    PROTEST THE POPE is sending a clear message that those days are over.

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    Re: Massive turnout for Protest the Pope first event.

    To be honest, I don't think the state of the UK has any more moral validity than the Catholic Church. This visit is just one bunch of immoral control freaks meeting another bunch of immoral control freaks. It'll be fun to see how this protest unfolds.

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    Re: Massive turnout for Protest the Pope first event.

    Quote Originally Posted by silentmist View Post
    To be honest, I don't think the state of the UK has any more moral validity than the Catholic Church. This visit is just one bunch of immoral control freaks meeting another bunch of immoral control freaks. It'll be fun to see how this protest unfolds.
    Nonsense. Name a British institution that covers up the **** and torture of children? The fact that the Church claims moral superority over everyone else, makes these crimes all the more sickening. And the pope is no ordinary cardinal or bishop, he is the head of a state with it's own laws and constitution. He should never again feel free to travel without fear of being arrested.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

    The likelyhood of you being observed is directly proportionate to the stupidity of your actions.

    Barack Hussein Obama, the president that got Bin Laden!

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    Re: Massive turnout for Protest the Pope first event.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveUK View Post
    Nonsense. Name a British institution that covers up the **** and torture of children? The fact that the Church claims moral superority over everyone else, makes these crimes all the more sickening. And the pope is no ordinary cardinal or bishop, he is the head of a state with it's own laws and constitution. He should never again feel free to travel without fear of being arrested.
    I am equally appalled by the misdeeds of people who are supposedly part of the hierarchy of the Catholic faith, and yet have done nothing in public to demonstrate that they have taken steps to deal with the miscreants, nor prevent a recurrence. How can they call themselves religious?

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    Re: Massive turnout for Protest the Pope first event.

    Quote Originally Posted by soloman View Post
    How can they call themselves religious?
    Have you read the Bible? Just about every atrocity you can think of, and some you never would as a decent human being, are permitted and sanctioned by God, in fact many are commanded.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

    The likelyhood of you being observed is directly proportionate to the stupidity of your actions.

    Barack Hussein Obama, the president that got Bin Laden!

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    Re: Massive turnout for Protest the Pope first event.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveUK View Post
    Have you read the Bible? Just about every atrocity you can think of, and some you never would as a decent human being, are permitted and sanctioned by God, in fact many are commanded.
    You raise a good question DaveUK. I hav read parts of the Bible and maybe all of it, but I consider it a document which was spoken about person to person, and hence is unreliable and exaggerated. Furthermore anyone who expects me to run my life based upon its texts is a lunatic and best ignored!

    But let the Pope come and speak; if he can or will answer our questions then maybe we will like him, otherwise we will reject him which is fine!

  7. #7
    PaulKing Guest

    Re: Massive turnout for Protest the Pope first event.

    The Vatican believes it’s power and wealth puts it in a position above the law and that it need not answer to anyone for it’s actions.

    This demonstration presents a once in a century chance to shatter that myth of Papal invincibility and demonstrate that no organization is above the laws of common decency and none can ignore the will of the people.

    Only a massive and aggressive show of strength and outrage can effect any change and in that spirit I implore every moral person to make a super human effort to promote this monumental event.

    Another chance like this may not occur in our lifetimes and the whole World is watching to see if we can really turn our words into action.

    Don’t let them down.

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    Re: Massive turnout for Protest the Pope first event.

    An interesting new survey on the proposed visit -

    Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey

    Some 77% of Britons think taxpayers should not help pay for Pope Benedict XVI's visit to Scotland and England, a survey suggests.

    An online poll of 2,005 adults issued by think tank Theos also found 79% had "no personal interest" in his visit.

    The Pope is due to arrive on 16 September, the first papal visit since Pope John Paul II's 1982 trip.

    The cost of the trip to UK taxpayers, previously estimated at £8m, could rise to between £10m and £12m.

    The Catholic Church is also expected to make a contribution of between £9m and £10m towards the costs, which do not include an expected multi-million pound bill for policing the visit.

    In the Theos survey, some 76% also rejected taxpayer funding for the visit on the grounds that the Pope was a religious figure.

    The full story available from here : BBC News - Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
    Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant only an intellectual could ignore it - Thomas Sowell

  9. #9
    PaulKing Guest

    Protest the Pope correct in saying Pope was 'willing Nazi'

    Analysis: The Pope and Hitler Youth
    The current Vatican crisis offers a teaching moment for this pope to directly address the enormity of the evils of Nazi Germany.

    POPE WILLINGLY JOINED HITLER YOUTH

    Pope Benedict XVI and his brother Georg Ratzinger stand in the baptistry where they were baptised, inside the Church of St. Oswald during the pope's visit to Marktl am Inn, Sept. 11, 2006. The pope spent part of the third day of his six-day tour in Bavaria at Marktl am Inn, a village where he spent the first two years of his life. (Andreas Gebert/Reuters) Click to enlarge photo

    The mists of history swirl around Pope Benedict XVI's hometown in the foothills of the Bavarian Alps in Germany.

    It was there that he came of age as Joseph Ratzinger and served in Hitler Youth during the rise of the Third Reich.

    Shining a light on that history offers a glimpse of the context underpinning the Vatican's current crisis, which results from the pope's decision last month to rescind the excommunication of a renegade, ultra-conservative bishop who actively denies the Holocaust.

    The decision unleashed a firestorm of controversy, with the German government weighing in last week, Israel's chief rabbinate severing ties with the Vatican, and Catholics and Jews worldwide feeling that decades of hard work and goodwill in improving relations between the two faiths had been undermined.

    So can we draw a line from this oversight by the pope, this inability to see how much his decision would insult so many, back to his German past and a decision as a 14-year-old boy to join the Hitler Youth?

    Most thoughtful Catholics and many Jewish historians I know would say, no, that is not a line that can be drawn, nor is it fair.

    But one man who knows some of the hidden truths in the pope's hometown of Traunstein is Father Rupert Berger, and his story deserves telling.

    Berger, now 81, was ordained a Catholic priest alongside Joseph Ratzinger and his brother, Georg, in 1951 in the beautiful church in the center of the town where they all grew up together.
    But there was something that set their two families apart.

    Berger's family sympathized with the Catholic resistance to Nazism in the town. Rupert was the same age as Joseph Ratzinger and at 14 years old he refused to join Hitler Youth. His family suffered as a result. He told me in an interview in 2005 that his father was sent to Dachau. He returned after the war and became the mayor.

    Ratzinger's father was a policeman. The family was never affiliated with the Nazi party. But the Ratzingers chose to go with the vast majority of Germany and acquiesce to the regulations requiring 14 year olds to join Hitler Youth. They wanted to survive and allow their two sons to focus on academics in the seminary. So Ratzinger and his brother joined at 14 and went through with the parades and the salutes to the Fuehrer. Ratzinger also served briefly with a German army anti-aircraft unit just before the end of the war.

    When I interviewed Berger in April 2005, just after Ratzinger had been elevated to the papacy, he spoke well of Ratzinger's intellect and discipline as a young man. But he said he couldn't understand why Ratzinger had insisted for so long in so many public statements that no one had a choice but to join Hitler Youth.

    ''It was a hard time to live, and there were hard choices to make," Berger said.

    He was too modest or polite, or perhaps uncertain about what to tell a reporter who landed on his doorstep, to state his opinion about the new pope's choices any more clearly.

    But what I took away from the interview and my research in the town was that the pope's repeated assertion that he had no choice but to join Hitler Youth was simply not true.

    In fact, the statement is an insult to the memory and the lives of those who did resist Nazism and those who did refuse to join the organizations that were formed to perpetuate its power.
    The pope's poorly-thought-out edict to reinstate the Holocaust-denying bishop — from which the Vatican is now vigorously back peddling — was also an insult to those who resisted Nazism and to Jews and Catholics alike around the world.

    At the end of the day, it shouldn't surprise us that this pope overlooked — or failed to adequately investigate — the dangerous and virulent strains of anti-Semitism that ran through British Bishop Richard Williamson's research that denied the Holocaust.

    Nor should it surprise us that the pope failed to give careful enough consideration to what lies behind the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X, which refuses to adhere to the teaching of the Second Vatican Council, including an important theological rejection of the idea of collective guilt on the part of Jews for the crucifixion of Jesus.

    Pope John Paul II had excommunicated Williamson and three other bishops from the Society of St. Pius X in 1988. On Jan. 21, Pope Benedict rescinded that excommunication and later claimed he was not aware of Williamson's Holocaust denial.

    It shouldn't surprise us that this pope rescinded the excommunication without sufficient attention to how such an act would be received, because it fits in with a lack of transparency and communication that is turning out to be a hallmark of Benedict's papacy.

    Even Cardinal Christoph Schonborn of Vienna, who worked closely with Ratzinger and who was a very strong supporter of the conclave that elected Benedict, said: "There must be also a certain criticism of the Vatican's staff practice, which obviously did not examine the matter carefully."

    John Allen, a columnist for National Catholic Reporter and the author of a biography of the pope, said that Schonborn's statement was significant because "even papal loyalists are coming to see that the meltdown illustrates a twin failure in transparency: One within the Vatican itself, in the sense that the proper people were not consulted, and the other in communication with the outside world."

    To deny the Holocaust is a crime in Germany, and yesterday German Chancelor Angela Merkel discussed the issue with the pope directly.

    After the German government demanded on Feb. 3 that the Vatican reconsider its position, the Vatican issued a statement Feb. 4 that Williamson must recant his denial of the Holocaust before he can be admitted into the Roman Catholic Church as a bishop. Williamson has refused to do that and now remains in limbo and leaves the Vatican in a moral twilight on the issue.

    Jason Berry, an author of several books on the Catholic church and the producer of the acclaimed documentary Vows of Silence, believes it is unfair to think Ratzinger as a young boy could have resisted joining the Hitler Youth.

    He believes the current crisis points more to a lack of leadership, saying, "Ratzinger is not being true to his position as a moral fundamentalist; he should have excommunicated Williamson when this news broke. Instead this lame response of asking him to retract is a day late and a dollar short."

    There's wide agreement that this much is true.

    But there is still the larger question as to whether this failure of judgment on some level mirrors the way in which this pope as a young man and his family found a way to shut out the enormity of the evil of Nazism and instead focus on his own internal world of intellectual intensity and the passion that he holds for the well being of his church.

    When I interviewed Father Berger in 2005, it was just days after the white puff of smoke emanated from the Vatican and confirmed that Ratzinger had been elevated to the papacy.

    When he came to the door, he was holding a broom. Father Berger stood in the doorway and occasionally dragged the broom back and forth while we stood there talking. He remembered much of the detail of those early teenage years when he and Joseph Ratzinger were confirmed as Catholics and when he rejected Hitler Youth and he saw his classmate accept membership.

    When I asked him why he thought Ratzinger obeyed the rules and joined the Hitler Youth, Berger replied: ''You could ask the majority of Germans this question. There was such high pressure on everyone. He was too young to do a conscious resistance."

    That was certainly true then, but it is certainly not true now.

    And for this German pope, a more clear act of "conscious resistance" to denying the Holocaust is now required. He should immediately excommunicate Williamson again and end the ambiguity.

    This pope has a unique teaching moment in which he can openly discuss how he feels about his own moral failings as a young man in not challenging the enormity of evil that was Nazism. And he can speak out about the need to remember accurately just how evil Nazism and the Holocaust was, and remind us all of the need to reject anyone who wants to deny the historical record that documents that evil.

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/w...09/ana...youth

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    Re: Massive turnout for Protest the Pope first event.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midas View Post
    An interesting new survey on the proposed visit -

    Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey

    Some 77% of Britons think taxpayers should not help pay for Pope Benedict XVI's visit to Scotland and England, a survey suggests.

    An online poll of 2,005 adults issued by think tank Theos also found 79% had "no personal interest" in his visit.

    The Pope is due to arrive on 16 September, the first papal visit since Pope John Paul II's 1982 trip.

    The cost of the trip to UK taxpayers, previously estimated at £8m, could rise to between £10m and £12m.

    The Catholic Church is also expected to make a contribution of between £9m and £10m towards the costs, which do not include an expected multi-million pound bill for policing the visit.

    In the Theos survey, some 76% also rejected taxpayer funding for the visit on the grounds that the Pope was a religious figure.

    The full story available from here : BBC News - Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
    I agree with that vote too.
    Are we expected to fund all religious leaders visits in future?
    Thay are springing up everywhere as I post so could be a non-stop flow from now on!

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