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Thread: The Reform Party

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    The Reform Party

    I'm currently creating a new political party in the UK with the above title. We've made a lot of progress since I joined the group. We now have close to 1300 members on facebook, a logo, a Party Constitution, a website (Wix.com the reform party campaigning for more democracy more discussion and more innovation), and we'll soon have elected Party Officials (anyone can vote; if you're interested find out more on the website).

    Now of course creating a new party that actually goes anywhere is not difficult in an FPTP electoral system, or even with AV if that passes next year. But the party is in dicussions with other small groups wanting to see a more democratic, reformist, progressive, transparent and honest party. So hopefully we may grow to be a substantial force in British politics.

    But what do you think? Having looked at our website do you like what we stand for? Do you think we stand a chance of going anywhere? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

    Robert Battison

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    Re: The Reform Party

    To me it seems a make it up as you go attitude that will gain members in the short run but will end up creating a lot of disappointments when you can't adopt the ideas of all your members. Yes people should be involved in the development of any political party but there is to much diversity within the country to unite it under the umbrella of one political party. Who would we be aligning ourselves with? Who will be taking the seats in parliament? How much experience do they have with carrying out the plans set out? What would be the impact of those ideas?

    It is true we all want change, but there is a price to pay for that change and we will see the price and endure the consequences of that change as we are seeing now.

    I think you need far more then you have now to be taken seriously. There needs to be more information on the organizers of this party instead of rolling an empty wagon down the hill and asking people to blindly jump aboard.

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    Re: The Reform Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I'm currently creating a new political party in the UK with the above title. We've made a lot of progress since I joined the group. We now have close to 1300 members on facebook, a logo, a Party Constitution, a website (Wix.com the reform party campaigning for more democracy more discussion and more innovation), and we'll soon have elected Party Officials (anyone can vote; if you're interested find out more on the website).

    Now of course creating a new party that actually goes anywhere is not difficult in an FPTP electoral system, or even with AV if that passes next year. But the party is in dicussions with other small groups wanting to see a more democratic, reformist, progressive, transparent and honest party. So hopefully we may grow to be a substantial force in British politics.

    But what do you think? Having looked at our website do you like what we stand for? Do you think we stand a chance of going anywhere? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

    Robert Battison
    Sorry if this sounds negative, but given that there are some 400 political parties already registered in the UK, I have to question what the point of starting yet another clone to many of those already in existence is. 1,300 members on a Facebook page isn't the same as as having 1,300 real paid-up members, and since you ask, yes, I have looked at your web site and to be honest found it rather poor, and no, I don't think you'll be going anywhere. On the other hand, top marks for at least trying to do something, and I hope that some of these 'other small groups' you're contacting can be persuaded to join forces to both achieve a genuine membership base with decent funding and enough people with contacts in the political and media worlds to actually do something.
    Last edited by Midas; 20-08-2010 at 08:31 AM. Reason: Corrected typo
    Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant only an intellectual could ignore it - Thomas Sowell

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    Re: The Reform Party

    Thanks for your quick replies! I find it quite promising that you're both eager to look into new things such as this, even if you are both skeptical about what results can be achieved.

    There's no doubt about it; what the Reform Party is doing is an experiment. However I would encourage you to join the facebook group and listen to what we're doing. There is, as you point out, little policy content about us as of yet, beyond the Party Constitution and things like that. However this is not to say that members don't have a clear idea of what they want to see. In fact I've drawn up a 30 page manifesto already.

    Why haven't we adopted this manifesto yet? Because we're far more democratic than the main parties. Hence we discuss and vote on every manifesto policy. If you really want to find out what we're going to be doing I suggest you come along to out first (online) party talks on Saturday (more information can be found on our facebook page
    at 'events' The Reform Party | Facebook)

    Can one party embrace the whole of the UK? One party democracies are not democracies by Western standards. We're a Centre-left, Liberal and Social Democratic group. I suggest you read the preamble of our Party Constitution.

    As for the 400 parties I'm afraid that number is not true. Not all the parties on the electoral register are still in existence. In fact most of them are not, and I should know believe me. The simple fact is that there are only a handful of parties with realistic (i.e. their policies have been looked at by anyone with half an education) policies. And none of these parties offers a real, progressive vision.

    Did you know that the number of homeless people (including those in temporary and terribly unsuitable accomodation) numbers 400,000 and growing? When's the last time you heard a mainstream party talking about ending homelessness? And don't think it doesn't affect you either. You sound like you're both Middle Class. Did you know that in England alone over 100,000 (mostly Middle Class) under 16 year olds run away from home every year, but that only 12% of public authorities have the provision to help them? What about the Chagos Islanders? 2000 British citizens in the Indian Ocean saw their homes destroyed, their livestock slaughtered, and their homeland taken away from them between 1967 and 1971. We have the power to let them resettle in the Chagos Islands, but throughout Labour's 13 years (and of course there's still been no change in the first hundred days with the coalition) their attempts have been repeatedly denied. What about the big issues of today? We have an aging population, yet when was the last time you heard of a politician talking about substantial pensions reform? We're promised a "New Politics" yet where's the evidence? As you can see it's fairly easy to go on and on.

    Now it's not all bad of course, but there is need for a fresh perspective. And whether or not we can go anywhere, surely you agree it's best to try?

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    Re: The Reform Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I'm currently creating a new political party in the UK with the above title. We've made a lot of progress since I joined the group. We now have close to 1300 members on facebook, a logo, a Party Constitution, a website (Wix.com the reform party campaigning for more democracy more discussion and more innovation), and we'll soon have elected Party Officials (anyone can vote; if you're interested find out more on the website).
    Now of course creating a new party that actually goes anywhere is not difficult in an FPTP electoral system, or even with AV if that passes next year. But the party is in dicussions with other small groups wanting to see a more democratic, reformist, progressive, transparent and honest party. So hopefully we may grow to be a substantial force in British politics.

    But what do you think? Having looked at our website do you like what we stand for? Do you think we stand a chance of going anywhere? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

    Robert Battison

    Hi,

    in todays brave new world I regret to tell you that shortly your web site will be banned to make way for XXXXXXXXXXXXX

    You seem not to have paid much attention to all this CLICK HERE

    You seem to overlook how our Government DOES function and pay overly much attention to the theory of how you wished it functioned.

    Is your Party registered? If not look at the stunt UKIP pulled on Ganley by registering his Party name and trying to sell it to him for thousands! John at El.Com. will be very helpfull and they are available at 09:00hrs. GET THERE FIRST.

    If we can help and you share the one single ethos, see our site. Maybe even join our very nascent forum.

    Regards,
    Greg_L-W.
    Last edited by Midas; 23-08-2010 at 08:34 AM. Reason: Personal advertising removed.

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    Re: The Reform Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins View Post
    Hi,

    in todays brave new world I regret to tell you that shortly your web site will be banned to make way for XXXXXXXXXXXXX

    You seem not to have paid much attention to all this CLICK HERE

    You seem to overlook how our Government DOES function and pay overly much attention to the theory of how you wished it functioned.

    Is your Party registered? If not look at the stunt UKIP pulled on Ganley by registering his Party name and trying to sell it to him for thousands! John at El.Com. will be very helpfull and they are available at 09:00hrs. GET THERE FIRST.

    If we can help and you share the one single ethos, see our site. Maybe even join our very nascent forum.

    Regards,
    Greg_L-W.
    Hi Greg.

    I'm not quite sure what to make of your message, but thanks for the interest all the same. The Reform Party's website (www.thereformparty.tk) will not be banned, and I'm not sure why you suggest it could be.

    I know a great deal about the EU, having studied International Politics for my undergraduate degree, and leaving it would not benefit anyone. Here's why:

    The UK receives the following benefits from the EU:

    Economic:
    . 3 million jobs rely on membership.
    . A majority of our trade is with the EU and irrelative of whether you can argue the impact of withdrawal will not be that big, trade relations are very likely to suffer.
    . An important reason why the UK is attractive to investors is that we belong to the Single Market (the world's largest free trade area).
    . Again because of the Single Market consumers have a much wider choice than they previously did, greater protection, and lower prices too.
    . Withdrawal from the EU is likely to followed by 'irrational speculation' by investors who think that membership is beneficial.
    . We have access to new markets in East Europe that are likely to grow in the near future.
    . We are entitled to, and have received, regional funding.
    . We gain from 'pooled sovereignty' in being able to shape economic decisions taken elsewhere in the EU. To take one example Sarkozy was forced to pursue less protectionist policies than he had wanted because of membership.


    International Affairs:
    . Day by day the UK is becoming a lesser power relative to the Newly Industrialised Countries. Yet together with the EU we can act with more power than even the US on some matters! This can clearly be seen with Chinese relations to the EU. Where the EU is prepared to act together the world listens.

    Security:
    . EU cooperation is essential to tackle international crime loops such as the group of Paedophiles broken up last year and referred to by Nick Clegg in one of the Prime Minister's debates.
    . No British soldiers can be sent anywhere without British permission. Yet the genocides of the 1990s in the Balkans were a shameful realisation of how we were acting together too little. As part of the EU we now have defence agreements to ensure rapid actions if ever such events take place again.
    . The EU is strongly committed to tackling environmental issues that cross borders. And thanks to EU membership our beaches, rivers and drinking water are cleaner.

    Peace and Co-operation:
    . The EU evolved out of the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) set up after WW2. That body aimed to prevent another war, and today the EU still works towards that goal in fostering ever improving relations. Withdrawing will reverse that process.

    The single strongest reason for membership of the EU is that with or without us it is a power. If we are at the heart of it then we can shape it.

    However the single greatest aspect of the Reform Party in my opinion is that what I have to say as the newly elected Party Leader does not dictate policy as it does with the mainstream groups. We discuss and debate all policy proposals, before letting Party Members vote on those proposals deemed to be consistent with our values and adopted policies.

    As you can see democracy is at the heart of what we do, and therefore despite my pro EU membership bias the Reform Party might be prepared to advance a referendum on withdrawal from the EU.

    As for whether we're registered, we're just about to become so. We've been joined recently by two Parliamentary Candidates from the 2010 GE, one from the Lib Dems and the other from a small party, who has agreed for us to take his registration with the Electoral Commission.

    Rob

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    Re: The Reform Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Hi Greg.

    I'm not quite sure what to make of your message, but thanks for the interest all the same. The Reform Party's website (www.thereformparty.tk) will not be banned, and I'm not sure why you suggest it could be.

    I know a great deal about the EU, having studied International Politics for my undergraduate degree, and leaving it would not benefit anyone. Here's why:

    The UK receives the following benefits from the EU:

    Economic:
    . 3 million jobs rely on membership.
    . A majority of our trade is with the EU and irrelative of whether you can argue the impact of withdrawal will not be that big, trade relations are very likely to suffer.
    . An important reason why the UK is attractive to investors is that we belong to the Single Market (the world's largest free trade area).
    . Again because of the Single Market consumers have a much wider choice than they previously did, greater protection, and lower prices too.
    . Withdrawal from the EU is likely to followed by 'irrational speculation' by investors who think that membership is beneficial.
    . We have access to new markets in East Europe that are likely to grow in the near future.
    . We are entitled to, and have received, regional funding.
    . We gain from 'pooled sovereignty' in being able to shape economic decisions taken elsewhere in the EU. To take one example Sarkozy was forced to pursue less protectionist policies than he had wanted because of membership.


    International Affairs:
    . Day by day the UK is becoming a lesser power relative to the Newly Industrialised Countries. Yet together with the EU we can act with more power than even the US on some matters! This can clearly be seen with Chinese relations to the EU. Where the EU is prepared to act together the world listens.

    Security:
    . EU cooperation is essential to tackle international crime loops such as the group of Paedophiles broken up last year and referred to by Nick Clegg in one of the Prime Minister's debates.
    . No British soldiers can be sent anywhere without British permission. Yet the genocides of the 1990s in the Balkans were a shameful realisation of how we were acting together too little. As part of the EU we now have defence agreements to ensure rapid actions if ever such events take place again.
    . The EU is strongly committed to tackling environmental issues that cross borders. And thanks to EU membership our beaches, rivers and drinking water are cleaner.

    Peace and Co-operation:
    . The EU evolved out of the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) set up after WW2. That body aimed to prevent another war, and today the EU still works towards that goal in fostering ever improving relations. Withdrawing will reverse that process.

    The single strongest reason for membership of the EU is that with or without us it is a power. If we are at the heart of it then we can shape it.

    However the single greatest aspect of the Reform Party in my opinion is that what I have to say as the newly elected Party Leader does not dictate policy as it does with the mainstream groups. We discuss and debate all policy proposals, before letting Party Members vote on those proposals deemed to be consistent with our values and adopted policies.

    As you can see democracy is at the heart of what we do, and therefore despite my pro EU membership bias the Reform Party might be prepared to advance a referendum on withdrawal from the EU.

    As for whether we're registered, we're just about to become so. We've been joined recently by two Parliamentary Candidates from the 2010 GE, one from the Lib Dems and the other from a small party, who has agreed for us to take his registration with the Electoral Commission.

    Rob
    Hi,

    how sweet!

    Do you believe everything in advertising leaflets too!!

    I really can't take your propaganda hand out seriously as it is so obviously just childish propaganda.

    It would be funny if it were not sad that Margot Wallstrom's Propaganda Agency actually thinks there are people stupid enough to believe this crud!

    Have you thought of getting a Job with the Communist Party or if that is a bit scarey you could try The Fabians or perhaps Common Purpose!

    By the way there is a special section on the Forum for jokes and I'm sorry your hand out is actually funny!

    Just take you very first statement 3M jobs - do you know where the figure comes from? Did you know that the Institute Director resigned and refused to work for the Labour Party again because they had so dishonestly quoted his report? Did you know he identified 3M jobs currently involved with EU trade, INCLUDING entrepot trade with the rest of the world and predicted a net sum gain in employment within 2 to 3 years of leaving the EU.

    Don't get suckered with the first crud figure the Minister of propaganda pushes out you just end up looking silly.

    You really can't expect to be taken seriously outside of red brick student politics with this standard of stupidity.

    Hook, Line AND Stinker!!

    Is the EU paying salaries for your pretend party for propaganda?

    Regards,
    Greg_L-W.

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    Re: The Reform Party

    Agree with GLW (that could be a first).
    Any party, new or otherwise needs a foundation of beliefs and some idea of where its going. Yours Robert has niether. Nearly every point you raise regarding the EU is wrong.

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    Re: The Reform Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetwalker View Post
    Agree with GLW (that could be a first).
    Any party, new or otherwise needs a foundation of beliefs and some idea of where its going. Yours Robert has niether. Nearly every point you raise regarding the EU is wrong.
    Hi,

    unfortunately our taxes, via a series of utterly corrupt Monnet Scholarships are being used to teach kids this cr@p in Universities and then pretend it is a Degree level course before giving them idiotic subsidised jobs in the utterly corrupt EU or the treacherous QUANGOcracy of our own kleptocratic Government.

    Is it any wonder contempt for the red brick unis. is so common and employers in the real world don't want graduates from these superannuated polytechs with their non qualifications!

    Regards,
    Greg_L-W.

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    Re: The Reform Party

    I can sympathize with your sceptism about the 3m jobs claim. The actual number is of course hard to pin down, because there are always a number of reasons any company invests in the UK. However I do think that if we left the EU the number of jobs lost would number in its millions. This is because of the role of market perceptions and expectations, and how they create a chain effect that I believe would start a recession. When some companies leave others fear the worst and start to leave themselves. Companies that stay start to fear a huge recession and they cut back on spending, just as sellers in the EU look for other markets. Basically, it's hard to prove, but I do believe leaving the EU would create a recession.

    However, my views on this aren't what matters for the party as a whole decides how favourable or skeptical we are towards the EU. Join the policy discussions if you like in the next couple of months (email me at robert@thebigqs.co.uk for more info). If you're prepared to be constructive, and offer valid reasons why we should be Euro-skeptical rather than pro-EU then we'd be happy to hear from you. Streetwalker, I haven't heard you ask about our "foundation of beliefs and some idea of where it's going". However I'd be glad to discuss it more with you. Essentially, I can do little better than quoting the preamble to our Party Constitution (below). I know there's a lot more questions to ask but I'll let you read this and then ask any other specifics you want to know about thereafter.

    "The Reform Party is a liberal and social democratic party, which exists to improve the lives of all UK citizens, and also make the world a better place to live in. We recognize that all party aims are media through which to increase the happiness of each and every person.

    We believe that the best way of achieving the above is to promote the Reform Partyís aims and values through contesting elections at every level within the United Kingdom, and also the EU.

    We believe in individual liberty, equality and social justice and, while recognizing an inherent tension between these ideas we believe that they must all form part of a wider programme of government. We believe that these ideas have been eroded in recent years and therefore stand for the reinstatement of civil liberties, freedoms and the rule of law, as the fundamental right of every UK citizen,

    We believe in the inalienable rights of all people as set out in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the European Convention of Human Rights. As such we seek to further the rights and freedoms of all individuals.

    We believe in individual responsibility, but also in the responsibility of society to protect and serve individuals. We recognise the role government can play in achieving positive and progressive outcomes, but seek to re-balance the equation between leadership and democracy. We believe that it is a leaderís duty to guide and exercise vision. Yet we see those who hold offices of power or authority within the party and the state as servants and representatives, not masters. We believe both the party and the state exist to serve the people, and have a responsibility to answer to the people. In this capacity we believe in the need for greater representation of the individual and the group.

    We believe there exists within society a continuing process of mutual cooperation and compromise, exercised through personal freedom, which is based on recognition of the inherent equality of all people. As such we believe the state must be based on the principles of secular democracy and popular sovereignty, where all institutions of government are democratic, accountable and transparent, and all representatives are honest. In addition, we seek to increase equality of opportunity at all times, so that no one person is left without prospects for improvement in such areas as career or housing.

    We also assert the interdependence and rights of all life-forms, and value the welfare of animals as well as humans. As such we seek to promote environmental values, and act in ways that will prevent, and even reverse environmental damage.

    We believe that economic development must be environmentally sustainable, and in the interests of all the people, so that happiness is pursued above economic productivity. However we believe that economic growth is a key factor in improving happiness, and so should be sought on these grounds.

    We seek to reform the UK so that it is governed in a manner in keeping with our core values."

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