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Thread: One step closer to war with Iran.

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    One step closer to war with Iran.

    Obama signs 'tough' Iran sanctions - Americas - Al Jazeera English

    Hi everyone, this is my first post here.

    Any respect I may have had for Obama as being a president with some intelligent foreign policy evaporated this morning. This sanction bill is very dangerous, badly thought out, and in fact a hostile act of war. There is scant evidence that sanctions effect regime change in any meaningful way. Saddam Hussein managed to hold on to power through one of the toughest sanction regimes ever inflicted on a nation.
    They do the west no good either. Obama has been quite explicit about the US' intention to ostracize those that choose to trade with Iran. He presumably includes Russia, China and India in this Bush like rhetoric. I can think of nothing more chaotic than having a trade war with these nations at such critical economic times as these. Half of Europe and near Asia relies on Russia to keep warm in the winter. The US relies heavily on trade with China and India.

    Aside from the economic consequences of such a foolish policy, the US simply can't afford to be engaged in another armed conflict with another country. US foreign policy costs the US tax payer 1 trillion $ a year to operate. The US is currently conducting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, bombing Pakistan and the Yemen, funding surrogate fighters is Somalia...........and this is not taking into account the US has some 700 military bases in more than 130 countries.

    All of Obama's current rhetoric on Iran smacks of neo conservative pre unilateral strikes against Iran. There is not one shred of empirical proof that Iran has any nuclear weapons programs in operation. This is according to the CIA's own assessments. We're told that Iran has the desire to obtain nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them. With neighbours like Israel, Pakistan and India, all hostile towards Iran the why wouldn't they want nuclear weapons? Add to that the constant interference by the west in Middle East affairs, and the openly hostile rhetoric that has come from the Whitehouse in the last 10 years towards Iran, one could argue that they would be silly not to pursue nuclear weapons.
    The truth is, Iran has never been found in violation of the none-proliferation treaty of 1970, whereas Israel, India and Pakistan are not even signed to it.

    Many politicians favour sanctions as opposed to a military option, this kind of policy is of course deeply flawed. Sanctions usually lead to further hostilities, galvanize our enemies against us, breed and feed fundamentalism and hostility towards the west, and of course cause untold suffering to millions of innocents

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    Re: One step closer to war with Iran.

    The involvement of the US in the Middle East does continue to smack of pseudo-imperialism, in Iran's case it's particularly ironic considering that the current political climate in Iran is entirely the US's fault. I really can't see any easy way out of this. Iran is definitely playing hardball with just about everybody, and it isn't just the US this time who's upset over it. It's sort of a watching and waiting game, to see whether or not Iran develops weapons. The big question really is are they insane enough to do it?

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    Arrow Re: One Step Closer to War with Iran.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveUK View Post
    Obama signs 'tough' Iran sanctions - Americas - Al Jazeera English

    Hi everyone, this is my first post here.

    Any respect I may have had for Obama as being a president with some intelligent foreign policy evaporated this morning. This sanction bill is very dangerous, badly thought out, and in fact a hostile act of war. There is scant evidence that sanctions effect regime change in any meaningful way. Saddam Hussein managed to hold on to power through one of the toughest sanction regimes ever inflicted on a nation.
    They do the west no good either. Obama has been quite explicit about the US' intention to ostracize those that choose to trade with Iran. He presumably includes Russia, China and India in this Bush like rhetoric. I can think of nothing more chaotic than having a trade war with these nations at such critical economic times as these. Half of Europe and near Asia relies on Russia to keep warm in the winter. The US relies heavily on trade with China and India.

    Aside from the economic consequences of such a foolish policy, the US simply can't afford to be engaged in another armed conflict with another country. US foreign policy costs the US tax payer 1 trillion $ a year to operate. The US is currently conducting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, bombing Pakistan and the Yemen, funding surrogate fighters is Somalia...........and this is not taking into account the US has some 700 military bases in more than 130 countries.

    All of Obama's current rhetoric on Iran smacks of neo conservative pre unilateral strikes against Iran. There is not one shred of empirical proof that Iran has any nuclear weapons programs in operation. This is according to the CIA's own assessments. We're told that Iran has the desire to obtain nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them. With neighbours like Israel, Pakistan and India, all hostile towards Iran the why wouldn't they want nuclear weapons? Add to that the constant interference by the west in Middle East affairs, and the openly hostile rhetoric that has come from the Whitehouse in the last 10 years towards Iran, one could argue that they would be silly not to pursue nuclear weapons.
    The truth is, Iran has never been found in violation of the none-proliferation treaty of 1970, whereas Israel, India and Pakistan are not even signed to it.

    Many politicians favour sanctions as opposed to a military option, this kind of policy is of course deeply flawed. Sanctions usually lead to further hostilities, galvanize our enemies against us, breed and feed fundamentalism and hostility towards the west, and of course cause untold suffering to millions of innocents

    Since this morning?! I lost it the first day he took office!
    Anyway, since then Obama has been talking gibberish and
    lie's then passing Healthcare scandulously.

    Trade with Iran!? The U.S. can't afford Obama's mistakes.
    Israel should be furious at us for this! Obama has turned his
    back on Israel since and since then that should have been
    a 'red flag' to the American people as well as others.

    Russia? They signed a treaty from Obama that benefited them
    and weakened us without any benefit for us, 0%, yet we still
    benefit them with trade upon them? Is there any benefit from
    this at all?

    I can account for the reasons why of bases in other countries
    for the "Axis" during World War ll, but not the others. I know
    Japan has lately held protests for us to remove them and go
    home, but since they lost it's their loss. That's the price for
    war is if you decide to go for it and lose.

    Germany my parents have always told me time and time again
    that they are of course upset with them being there. The fear
    though is if it ever were to rise again which I doubt and another
    thing is that they are now one of our best Allie's.

    I'm not so sure about Iran having the grip of nuclear weapons,
    but I do believe it would be their desire to obtain them and the
    first hit would be Israel itself within seconds.

    If Israel had them I would give them the option of what they want
    to do since they have been treated unfairly for many years.

    Well you are now a fine example of one of many who are waking
    up to the Obama Administrations deadly regime here. Or really
    his stupidity to be exact. Good Morning.

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    Re: One step closer to war with Iran.

    Indeed it is the fault of the US' policy towards Iran and the middle east in general. The war mongering rhetoric of Bush and now Obama, the constant support for Israels annexation of Gaza and the Palestinian people, the deliberate misquoting of Ahmadinejad, the slaughter and demonisation of the shia in Iraq..........
    But the problem goes back much further. The Iranians haven't forgotten the secret war the US has conducted against them since the Islamic Revolution in 79, nor America's support for Saddam Hussein in the Iran Iraq war.

    On the question of whether Iran is "insane" enough to develop nukes, well of course, they are. The real question though is whether they can or not. Currently they can't get their centrifuges to work efficiantly enough, their uranium is contaminated and they don't posess the technology to purify it. Subsiquently every single attempt they've made to run their centrifuges at 7000 rpm, they self destruct.

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    Re: One step closer to war with Iran.

    Hi DaveUK, and welcome to the Politics Forum!

    To start with you might like to read the extended "Welcome" message in the Rules and Guidelines section of the forum, which also includes a full version of the Forum Rules.

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    Re: One Step Closer to War with Iran.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Silver Eagle View Post
    Since this morning?! I lost it the first day he took office!
    Anyway, since then Obama has been talking gibberish and
    lie's then passing Healthcare scandulously.

    Trade with Iran!? The U.S. can't afford Obama's mistakes.
    Israel should be furious at us for this! Obama has turned his
    back on Israel since and since then that should have been
    a 'red flag' to the American people as well as others.

    Russia? They signed a treaty from Obama that benefited them
    and weakened us without any benefit for us, 0%, yet we still
    benefit them with trade upon them? Is there any benefit from
    this at all?

    I can account for the reasons why of bases in other countries
    for the "Axis" during World War ll, but not the others. I know
    Japan has lately held protests for us to remove them and go
    home, but since they lost it's their loss. That's the price for
    war is if you decide to go for it and lose.

    Germany my parents have always told me time and time again
    that they are of course upset with them being there. The fear
    though is if it ever were to rise again which I doubt and another
    thing is that they are now one of our best Allie's.

    I'm not so sure about Iran having the grip of nuclear weapons,
    but I do believe it would be their desire to obtain them and the
    first hit would be Israel itself within seconds.

    If Israel had them I would give them the option of what they want
    to do since they have been treated unfairly for many years.

    Well you are now a fine example of one of many who are waking
    up to the Obama Administrations deadly regime here. Or really
    his stupidity to be exact. Good Morning.
    Obama turned his back on Israel?? If only that were the case. Israel still recieves more in aid from the US than all other countries the US providele s aid to combined. US policy in the middle east is cynically manipulated by Israels national interests, and has little if anything to do with America's national interests. The jewish lobby in the USA has successfully blured the line between US interests and Israeli interests.
    Israeli lobby groups such as APAC don't have to register as agents of a foreign government when lobbying US politicians on behalf of Israel.
    Israel has some legitimate concerns about its security in the regions that it is ilegally occupying, but these are not and should not be concerns about American national security. Hezbollah is an Israeli problem, not a US problem. Hezbollah was born out of Israels invasion of Lebenon.
    The US continues to allow Israel to opt out of the NPT, of which the US holds countries like Iran accountable to.
    No country in the region has attacked or threatened its neigbors as much as Israel, yet they still enjoy the protection of the US.

    And what do you mean "if israel had them"? They do have nuclear weapons, and would hapilly use them if they thought they were imune from attack themselves.

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    Re: One Step Closer to War with Iran.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveUK View Post
    Obama turned his back on Israel?? If only that were the case. Israel still recieves more in aid from the US than all other countries the US providele s aid to combined.
    Yes indeed! In fact Israel receives around $3 billion in military aid each year from the US, representing approximately 1/3 of the total worldwide aid the US provides.

    Source - the US Congressional Research Service's report "U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel" by Jeremy M. Sharp.
    Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant only an intellectual could ignore it - Thomas Sowell

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    Re: One step closer to war with Iran.

    Hi Midas,
    Thanks for the warm welcome and the tips. http://www.politic.co.uk/introduce-y...tml#post111260

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    Re: One Step Closer to War with Iran.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveUK View Post
    Obama turned his back on Israel?? If only that were the case. Israel still recieves more in aid from the US than all other countries the US providele s aid to combined. US policy in the middle east is cynically manipulated by Israels national interests, and has little if anything to do with America's national interests. The jewish lobby in the USA has successfully blured the line between US interests and Israeli interests.
    Israeli lobby groups such as APAC don't have to register as agents of a foreign government when lobbying US politicians on behalf of Israel.
    Israel has some legitimate concerns about its security in the regions that it is ilegally occupying, but these are not and should not be concerns about American national security. Hezbollah is an Israeli problem, not a US problem. Hezbollah was born out of Israels invasion of Lebenon.
    The US continues to allow Israel to opt out of the NPT, of which the US holds countries like Iran accountable to.
    No country in the region has attacked or threatened its neigbors as much as Israel, yet they still enjoy the protection of the US.

    And what do you mean "if israel had them"? They do have nuclear weapons, and would hapilly use them if they thought they were imune from attack themselves.

    You are correct.

    The protection of Israel is the cornerstone of American foreign policy and Obama has done nothing to change that because at the end of the day the pro Israel lobby in the US is simply too strong.

    I think the protection of Israel is the worst foreign policy decision ever made by the US. It has caused us nothing but pain and suffering and we have got nothing in return.

    Now the war drums are beating on Iran. From an American perspective Iran is absolutely no threat. It is a threat to Israel and Saudi Arabia but not a threat to the US. In my opinion my country would be much better served to listen to the advice of our Founding Fathers to stay out of foreign entanglements than to listen to the demands of the foreign lobbyists.
    Libtards hate freedom unless it is the freedom to kill a child on demand for the sake of convenience. Otherwise they want the government to control every aspect of our lives.

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    Re: One Step Closer to War with Iran.

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    You are correct.

    The protection of Israel is the cornerstone of American foreign policy and Obama has done nothing to change that because at the end of the day the pro Israel lobby in the US is simply too strong.

    I think the protection of Israel is the worst foreign policy decision ever made by the US. It has caused us nothing but pain and suffering and we have got nothing in return.

    Now the war drums are beating on Iran. From an American perspective Iran is absolutely no threat. It is a threat to Israel and Saudi Arabia but not a threat to the US. In my opinion my country would be much better served to listen to the advice of our Founding Fathers to stay out of foreign entanglements than to listen to the demands of the foreign lobbyists.
    For once we agree, almost.
    Iran isn't even a threat to Israel or the Saudis. Their so called nuclear program is so backward and inefficiant, they can't even produce enough power to light a bulb, let alone manufacture weapons. Iran has never recovered militarily from the war with Iraq. They have a generation gap in Iran due to the estimated 1 million young men killed in the 1980s fighting Iraq.
    The predominantly young population in Iran is seeing through the theocratic regime, and it's only a matter of time before the religious cack pots that run that country will be toppled from power.
    It would be far better for the west to allow them to determine their own future, and leave well alone. Going to war with Iran on their own soil would result in far more casualties than Iraq and Afghanistan put together.
    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours ." Steven Roberts

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